How to tighten up the abs more?

[Bflatman]

Trumpetteacher1 I suspect a semantics difference has led to our disagreement.

Things that easily sit together are strength and endurance, or fitness and health, or relaxation and calmness. There is never any conflict between the pairs that sit together easily.

When we speak of strength and flexibilty this a horse of a different colour, strength can be accompanied by flexibility but also strength can lead to rigidity when carried to extremes.

This means that strength and flexibility are in a balance and when the balance is upset there is an imbalance. This is what I mean when I say that I would disagree that strength and flexibility can easily sit together. They can sit together but there is a tacit relationship and they may oppose each other.

If strength and flexibility went hand in hand then no matter how strong you become you would always be flexible. This appears not to be the case.

I have a lengthy experience in training athletes and my experience is that as you develop muscle bulk speed and capability increases, but beyond a certain point as muscle bulk increases, the speed and capability reduces.

A heavily muscled athlete is significantly slower and more ponderous than a slim well toned athlete. This is due to several effects. Muscle is heavy, Also as muscles bulk they generally become slower to react and slower to relax. this is partly due to changes in the fibres of muscles as they bulk and the types of fibre.

Bulking of muscles involves teardown and rebuild. rebuilt muscles can be of two types of muscle fibre and this affects their operation.

When you exercise the exercises that you do determine which type of muscle fibres you build. High intensity power exercises like situps vertical jumps broad jumps lifting heavier weights build fast twitch fibres. Low intensity aerobic exercise such as endurance training and lifting lighter weights builds slow twitch fibres.

Fast twitch muscle tires quickly, slow twitch muscle is better for endurance. In my view trumpet playing demands endurance, therefore slow twitch muscle fibres are desirable if you are a trumpet player.

Situps and other power exercises that build abs build fast twitch muscle fibres. Entirely the wrong kind of muscle fibres.

I have no issue with fitness and I have no issue with wishing to tone the muscles. What I do have an issue with is bulking up the abs with the wrong kind of fast twitch fibres and reducing the ability of the abs to relax and allow deep breathing.

I am very much in agreement with JoseLindE4 on this.

[trumpetteacher1]

Yes, it is likely a semantics difference. However, I think that you are making an unnecessary distinction between things that "sit easily together," and things that are more in opposition. Natural opposites can sit easily together if there is a balance. Finding the balance is the challenge.

If the OP is experiencing weakness in his abs, then seeking to strengthen them is reasonable. Instead, many posters here have automatically assumed that he is obsessing over the physical side, to the detriment of the other.

Perhaps that is true. Perhaps not.

Jeff

[Don Herman rev2]

^^^ We need a "like" button...
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[Bflatman]

I like what you say but the OP appears to be making some assumptions about his condition that need a professional diagnosis.

He suspects he has diastasis recti, this is a condition that affects women after childbirth.

It can affect men but rarely so, it tends to affect obese men, due to the large size of their belly.

I doubt that the OP is obese, of course I could be wrong, It doesnt sound like there has been a professional diagnosis here. On the contrary I suspect he takes good care of his body and eats sensibly. and is basing his health and exercise needs upon some questionable assumptions.

Assumptions are often bad for health and exercise decisions, this can easily lead to excessive concentration in one area and neglect in another.

[Turkle]

I'll say this - trumpet playing got a WHOLE lot easier when I put down the junk food, started exercising, and got really fit. I've never had any problem with having too much ab muscles - strong abs are a huge help for making it through long, demanding gigs. It's not really about powering your notes with your abs, you should in general be much more relaxed than that when playing, it's just about having the strength to endure while playing the horn for a long time.

If having rock-solid abs is messing with my breathing, whether I'm running or playing the trumpet, I sure haven't noticed.

Core strength! It'll improve your life and make you a better musician!
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[trumpet_bob_silver]

This is still an open issue, probably will be for a long time if not permanently.

Diastasis recti still matches. I know trumpet playing will make it worse. I think I might just relax in the center of the abs more when I relax. Plus, something has be more flexible there just to breathe.

No great exercise solution. Making sure that spot is engaged is good. Doing a 'crunch' position but just lifting the head works well to get that spot actually working, but that tightens up the neck muscles which I don't like.

No great solution in mind... and the problem still exists. At least it's consistent.

Maybe something with engaging the side ab "panels" and getting them to push inward to close the diastasis recti gap.


I'm not overweight, don't eat junk food, etc.


Possibly one of those things that limits its time for working on it. Work on it a bit and it wears out fast?

It just needs more focus. Maybe something like tightening... and breathing still works with the whole ab section moving....

Or athletic tape... That might be interesting. Get some of that and tape the abs in place. It would definitely emphasize to me to keep that spot 'controlled' more during the day when I feel the tape.

[Richard III]

Same question as before. Why do you think a bunch of trumpet players can diagnose your problem and come up with a solution? I'm a chiropractor who specialized in sports injury and training and I don't know what's wrong with you. What's stopping you from seeing an expert?
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[Richard III]

Oh and please don't do the exercises Shaft described. Get an expert opinion, please.
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[trumpet_bob_silver]

[Richard III]

Where do you live?
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[Robert P]

[kingkaliente]

Regular Abs exercises concentrate just in the abs and not in the many muscles around them. The muscles around the abs "frame" the abs and bring stability to the spine. Those are the muscles that you should be working out if you want to #1 Have distinguishable abs and #2 good core strength.

The exercises that work out this muscles in a way that has worked for me are PLANK EXERCISES.

The good thing about them is that they are fairly fast to do. You just need to hold a position for 30 to 45 seconds and repeat that up to 3 times a day. The results will come fast if you keep at it for a few days. You will feel it in your posture and your playing.

I have been doing planks for over a year and my posture and playing have improved a lot without sacrificing too much time in the gym.

Just google plank positions and look at the images. They are way more useful than doing regular ab exercises.

[kehaulani]

What does this have to do with Trumpet Fundamentals?
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[dfreeband]

Being in shape will definitely help with breathing and diaphragm support.
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[kehaulani]

That may or not be true, (a French horn player with the Philadelphia Orch. weighed 300 lbs.). but this discussion goes ridiculously afield of that. Is anyone going to throw all of this at a beginner?

Anyway, never mind. This five-year-old thread has a life of its own.
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[Jaw04]

Doing planks, and being in shape, are good for your playing. But I advise not thinking about what your abs are doing while playing. Focus on the sound production, long tones should sound good and feel good.

Noticing the sensation of your abdomen while playing is cool as long as you aren't doing too much crazy stuff. Body awareness is good, like all things, in moderation.

For me, there's a little bit of engagement from the core while holding out a note for 30 seconds. There is a more engagement in the upper register, but there is also engagement in the low register. Other than "engagement" I don't really overthink it.

[MrOlds]

Old thread but interesting question. How much ab strength do we need to play well?

I’m reminded of a presentation Bill Adam did at an ITG conference years ago. He described the concept of energized air and used the “announcer voice”.

My fuzzy recollection and personal simplification is this:

Recite “Mary had a little lamb” in your normal voice. Probably sounds dull, uninteresting, lacking in inflection.

Now recite it again imitating the announcer for the mega truck show at the local fairgrounds. Sounds different. More excitement. More inflection.

What did you do to get that excitement? You did something… You energized the air but you probably didn’t go crazy with your ab muscles.

Play with your announcer voice. Don’t go crazy with your abs.

[Mike Sailors]

Classic TH
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