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TheHighNotes Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2022 Posts: 43 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:41 am Post subject: Approaching Piccolo Sound |
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When you play your picc, or practice you picc, how does what you do on your big horns translate to your sound concept on piccolo?
I know perhaps standard advice is 'make everything sound like your Bb trumpet' - and I actually DO NOT subscribe to that. I think each horn has it's different colors.
I am slowly getting my picc chops back together and wondered what some of you do mentally to get the sound you want, or how you approach piccolo sound.
(edit, I can't spell APPROACHING) _________________ "To have have fun, to learn, to improve. To share my perspective on how to navigate playing the trumpet to the best of my ability. To preserve and champion high art, artistic integrity, and live instrumental music."
-TheHighNotes |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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IMO- the sound you will make on any brass instrument is closely related to the tonal concept you have in your mind before you ever play a note. Long before I ever owned a pic back in the 1970s I'd spent hours listening to those old Ed Tarr baroque trumpet recordings (Nonesuch Label) that always showed up in the bargain bins for a couple bucks per album. To be sure, he wasn't playing a pic (baroque trumpet) but the nuances, style and overall floating tone quality sank in and when I bought a D/Eb, that was the sound I already wanted to hear when the wind parted my chops.
A year or so later on my first pic, it was the same. I have no idea how any of this "tramslates" to C or Bb. I just try to stay out of the way of producing the sound I hear, and it must already be in motion before I release the wind. My best advice: Listen to players you that you believe are playing the way you'd like, and listen deeply. Then, before you play a tone, imagine that same sound coming out of your bell. Stay out of your own way.
Good luck. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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For me:
Piccolo = Montserrat Caballé
D/Eb = Barbara Bonney
C/Bb = Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau |
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patdublc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1050 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:11 am Post subject: |
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I like what the others have said. You definitely must have a sound in your head or else you can't tell if you're doing what you want to do or not. And getting out of your own way is huge. Too many people freak out about playing picc and let that get in their way.
For me personally, I like to learn the feel of each horn. By that I mean how the blow feels so that you can comfortably play the horn instead of trying to muscle the horn around. Some would refer to this feel as the resistance, but saying resistance can start a huge debate about what that really means. So, I'll stay with the "feel" of the horn.
Once you are comfortable with the feel of the horn, then you can stop thinking about the horn and just play it - with your sound.
Using this approach makes it so that I don't have to play every horn every day. If I haven't touched picc in several weeks, it is not an issue to pull it out of the case in the middle of a concert and play it. I know how the horn feels so there are no surprises. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:58 am Post subject: Piccolo approach |
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One of the best players and teachers on playing piccolo advised me on this approach to piccolo:
Take a deep breath and exhale 2/3 of it before playing. Your concept of sound remains the same.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Craig Swartz wrote: | IMO- the sound you will make on any brass instrument is closely related to the tonal concept you have in your mind before you ever play a note. Stay out of your own way.
Good luck. |
patdublc wrote: | ... And getting out of your own way is huge. Too many people freak out about playing picc and let that get in their way.
...For me personally, I like to learn the feel of each horn. By that I mean how the blow feels so that you can comfortably play the horn instead of trying to muscle the horn around.
...Once you are comfortable with the feel of the horn, then you can stop thinking about the horn and just play it - with your sound.
... I know how the horn feels so there are no surprises. |
Tony Scodwell wrote: | ... Your concept of sound remains the same. |
I'm just a year and change into playing picc and just 8 years back to playing trumpet, but I wholly agree with the above statements.
My regular accompanist, a very accomplished pianist and organist, has often commented that no matter which trumpet voice I am using at the moment, my intrinsic "sound" (the essential nature) is still very recognizable. Not the same as I hear on my side of the bell (recordings and videos tell me this), but still characteristically me. I would think that this is true for most of us.
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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gutlo Regular Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 86
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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I generally approach my Thein piccolo trumpet from the southwest, unless, of course, I'm in a Northern state, then I sneak up on it from the north. If there's an east-west wind blowing, I go from the northwest to avoid being buffeted about. It's more problematic being in Texas. That's because no matter how you approach the tiny piccolo, there's always some galoot around ready to blow you off the stage with a marching band trumpet. |
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TheHighNotes Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2022 Posts: 43 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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gutlo wrote: | I generally approach my Thein piccolo trumpet from the southwest, unless, of course, I'm in a Northern state, then I sneak up on it from the north. If there's an east-west wind blowing, I go from the northwest to avoid being buffeted about. It's more problematic being in Texas. That's because no matter how you approach the tiny piccolo, there's always some galoot around ready to blow you off the stage with a marching band trumpet. |
_________________ "To have have fun, to learn, to improve. To share my perspective on how to navigate playing the trumpet to the best of my ability. To preserve and champion high art, artistic integrity, and live instrumental music."
-TheHighNotes |
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TheHighNotes Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2022 Posts: 43 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Piccolo approach |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | One of the best players and teachers on playing piccolo advised me on this approach to piccolo:
Take a deep breath and exhale 2/3 of it before playing. Your concept of sound remains the same.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
I would like to thank you all for the replies.
It's funny, when I was at the highest of my playing maybe 6 years ago, I approached picc playing like simply playing in the middle register. Albeit, slightly more physically demanding. That was the concept. _________________ "To have have fun, to learn, to improve. To share my perspective on how to navigate playing the trumpet to the best of my ability. To preserve and champion high art, artistic integrity, and live instrumental music."
-TheHighNotes |
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LaTrompeta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 867 Location: West Side, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:12 am Post subject: |
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I just listen to either Hakan Hardenberger or Matthias Hofs and become enraptured in the bliss. _________________ Please join me as well at:
https://trumpetboards.com |
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TheHighNotes Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2022 Posts: 43 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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LaTrompeta wrote: | I just listen to either Hakan Hardenberger or Matthias Hofs and become enraptured in the bliss. |
I am sure some of the big names are lurking here, but for my part Hofs is setting the bar right now on picc.... _________________ "To have have fun, to learn, to improve. To share my perspective on how to navigate playing the trumpet to the best of my ability. To preserve and champion high art, artistic integrity, and live instrumental music."
-TheHighNotes |
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Mjrkenk New Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2022 Posts: 1 Location: Chilliwack, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: Pic |
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While I've been playing for more than 65 years, I only began to play the pic in the last 5 years. I've had plenty of time playing Eb Soprano in Brass Bands, but pic was totally new to me. I found that (as has been mentioned) it doesn't take as much air as a Bb or Eb and at first overblowing was a hindrance, however, once I got that sorted out the sound just naturally seemed to follow my sound on Bb and Eb - only higher. Haven't had much chance to play it out (only on an orchestral version of Penny Lane), but its fun to practice on. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Maurice.Andre. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Shark01 Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 283
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:09 am Post subject: |
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No one has mentioned bore size, which plays a part in what types of sound are available….pending talent level. |
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irith Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 879
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Listening is critical, as others have said.
The main thing I think about is to have a warm but very compact core of sound, and let the horn do the work. Thinking "big" makes me overblow the picc, but I still want to retain some of the color and complexity the bigger horns have, rather than getting thin and screechy.
Also, softer/rounder articulations! Of course with orchestral or more modern stuff sometimes you are called to tongue hard on the picc, but for the most part a very legato approach helps me tame it and encourages me to stay relaxed, yielding a much better sound. _________________ Bach, Schilke, Pickett mostly |
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btomcik Regular Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 93 Location: Webster, NY, USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Maurice.Andre. |
For me, I like the sounds of Maurice Andre and Rolf Smedvig. I try to emulate their tones when I play, though I obviously fall short. My Bb horn is a mellower-sounding horn as compared to my C and picc. I enjoy using my C and picc for playing at church more than I like the Bb because of the brightness of their sounds. But in any event, I try to get the best tone I can regardless of what I play. _________________ Kanstul 1600 Bb
XO 1624 C
Getzen Renaissance 30 C
XO 1700 Bb/A picc
"Hit it hard, and wish it well." - CG |
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