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LyonLover Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:46 am Post subject: Starting over from square 1 on Trumpet |
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no
Last edited by LyonLover on Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Starting over from square 1 on Trumpet |
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LyonLover wrote: | ... but I just cannot play any higher than E in the staff when in playing soft. ... |
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My guess is that you are being forced to use very high 'air power' to overcome an overly resistant lip aperture. That might be due to rim pressure, or how you adjust your lips.
The lip aperture HAS to be flexible enough to vibrate, even when playing softly. It is a 'learned skill' how to position and adjust your lips (entire embouchure) to achieve that functionality.
My thoughts about embouchure are here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm
(standard advice is to get a good teacher - and be a good student)
Read it to at least get a list of 'embouchure items' to consider. Then do self-evaluation about those items and let us know what you actually DO, and what you think about the items.
Have any of your current teachers / coaches made specific comments about how to DO things differently to improve? _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:06 am Post subject: |
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One of the things that I hear frequently in all-state auditions is a tone that is very airy, not very flexible, poor response and not very accurate. It becomes strained and strident above the staff. I can recreate that sound by using a mouthpiece that is the wrong size for me, pin the lips open with the inner rim of the mouthpiece, and stretch the corners back.
I like to start with the lips lightly touching inside the mouthpiece and practice breath attacks to keep the vibration started. Remember, we cannot buzz our lips -- try doing it without blowing! The lips respond to the air and the lips have to be the right position to respond. Think about an oboe reed -- if the tip is too open the pitch is wrong and the reed doesn't respond to the air. When the tip is the optimal size the pitch comes up and the reed vibrates easily.
I used to be a lot like the first example above, except I had a really good tone -- the rest stunk though. Balanced Embouchure helped fix the other issues.
Completely starting over may not be necessary, but it sounds like a change in approach might be. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Are you at Ohio State?
If so, call and seek a qualified teacher at the university and there certainly should be one there.
You won't solve this yourself or merely reading about it. This type of problem calls for a one on one with a good teacher.
Regardless of where you find a good teacher, get one!
R. Tomasek |
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jscahoy Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 415
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Starting over from square 1 on Trumpet |
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LyonLover wrote: | Over the weekend I had a very important audition that i've been practicing over a year for, and that was all I was really practicing for. I thought I did okay, but clearly not. Complete garbage music score.
So at this point I have 2 options, I can quit the Trumpet, or I can grind it and come back next year. Of course I want to come back.
Clearly my approach currently to the Trumpet doesn't work, obviously. |
Right, and that's why you pay for a teacher. But not all teachers can help with all problems. Might be time to look around.
Don't give up. All of us (okay MOST of us) have had crash and burn disappointments. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Post a link to video of you playing. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: |
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You have gotten, and might get more, good but varying technical advice, but I think there is really only one recommendation for you:
Get a good, effective teacher, one with a proven track record. And preferably one with whom you can have personal study with.
A distant second are Skype lessons.
DO NOT rely on the internet. There's some great stuff out there but it's lethal if you don't know what you don't know.
Could you tell us what kind of ensemble you want o join? What style and at what level? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 691 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: |
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So, how is your air flow? All those problems can be related to your breath control, and air use. Especially under stressful situations, getting free flow of air becomes difficult. Most people think breathing is just "natural", but for a wind instrumentalist, it is a real skill to pursue.
Don't trash everything you have done till you can single out the real culprits. Which brings me back to what everyone else has said. Get a good teacher or even a good (and experienced) mentor. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like you've got fundamental problems with the mechanics of your playing - I can tell you from frustrating personal experience if you don't make some fundamental changes just "grinding it out until next year" is going to yield similar results. I'd say your teacher isn't getting it done for you.
Post video of yourself playing to get meaningful feedback here. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Let's get down to some basics.
How old are you? _________________ Bill Bergren |
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LyonLover Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Let's get down to some basics.
How old are you? |
no
Last edited by LyonLover on Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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LyonLover wrote: | ... I will post a video of me playing when I get to where I can play in an hour or so |
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That will be a great start.
There ARE people here who likely can help you - if you work with them. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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LyonLover wrote: |
- I'm a sophomore in college
- I only want to be in my college's marching band |
You don't need to post any videos or get second-hand suggestions from a bunch of strangers. You know what you need to do. Now, go and do it. Good luck! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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LyonLover Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 49
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donovan Veteran Member
Joined: 23 May 2002 Posts: 248 Location: Springfield, MO
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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You must have had a bad audition. Listening to your clip, there's no way you couldn't handle the third part in any marching band. _________________ Donovan Bankhead
donovan@erniewilliamson.com
www.erniewilliamson.com
Last edited by donovan on Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2036 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:32 am Post subject: |
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What does your teacher think is going on, and what does he/she recommend you do about it? That is the most important conversation you can have right now.
Work with your teacher to put together a plan to get ready for the audition next year: What needs to change? What should you practice, and how should you practice it?
Good luck! |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Could it be that your issue is more on the psychological level? Afraid of exposed situations like an audition? I was a solid player but never made first chair because I would get nervous, lose range, and get tired very quickly due to overtightening everything. Since my return around 2014, I have spent significant (!!!) amounts of time working on being cool and relaxed. And look at that, I made first chair and do get asked to sub in a number of local groups. Tadaa _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 985 Location: Europe
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Dayton wrote: | What does your teacher think is going on, and what does he/she recommend you do about it? That is the most important conversation you can have right now. |
+1. Someone who can hear/see you play in person is far more able to tell the deficiencies in your playing. And like Brassnose said, the psychological aspect of playing can have quite an impact too, so feel free to bring that up as well. Your teacher may be able to help you cope with the added stress of 'being judged', even if that stress is subconcious.
FWIW your sound is quite nice on the recording (it suffers a bit during the part where you're running out of breath but you recover nicely). _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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LyonLover Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Dayton wrote: | What does your teacher think is going on, and what does he/she recommend you do about it? That is the most important conversation you can have right now.
Work with your teacher to put together a plan to get ready for the audition next year: What needs to change? What should you practice, and how should you practice it?
Good luck! |
He was extremely shocked and stunned by my music score. Encouraged me to keep practicing and get back at it but he was shocked. |
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LyonLover Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:26 am Post subject: |
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donovan wrote: | You must have had a bad audition. Listening to your clip, there's no way you couldn't handle the third part in any marching band. |
iiiii
Last edited by LyonLover on Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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