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Stomvi/Kanstul/Schagerl pocket


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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:07 am    Post subject: Stomvi/Kanstul/Schagerl pocket Reply with quote

Hi everyone,
I'm pondering picking up a pocket trumpet for some playing while traveling or when a large case isn't convenient, and was wondering what people's thoughts are on what a good "real trumpet" playing pocket is while getting the best bang for the buck so to speak (aka can't spend Marcinkiewicz money, though that would be awesome). I'm willing to pay a little more for higher quality without getting too extravagant.

On the cheaper end the Carol 3000 and ACB Manchester Brass have been fairly well spoken of, but looking a little bit higher up, ACB also has the Schagerl PT-200 which seems to be a little better quality, but I can't find a lot of info on it. Even more expensive... significantly so, are the Stomvi Forte and Kanstul 905, which both seem to be in the $2000 range new. Does anyone know how much better the Stomvi and Kanstul play compared to the Carol/ACB brands? I'm guessing *probably* not more than twice as well, but that's why I'm asking.

I also found this site, which has the Stomvi for a much more reasonable $1200, because it's a local Spanish place I guess:
https://lamusainstrumentos.es/en/stomvi-forte-pocket-trumpet.html

And a Kanstul on ebay for 1050, but there's zero elaboration in the description and the seller never answered a message.

Any thoughts appreciated. I play a Bach Strad ML bore primarily.
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superviking805
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned or played everything on your list.

My first choice would be a Marcinkiewicz but this one was too expensive for me and I don't think they make them anymore.

I would avoid any of the Jupiter 416 series or the large bell variant, don't like the sound or the wrap.

All the Carol pocket horns play very well. However, I don't like the wrap.

All the rest have the good Benge wrap, feel better in my hands.

I believe Manchester and Schragerl are made at the same factory in China which also produces a Jupiter710 and Phaeton. They mostly all play the same.

Stomvi I have tried 2, one good and one I did not like as it played too dark.

Kanstul, best of the bunch, get the silver one currently on ebay!

I own a The Marcato, same wrap as the Kanstul, plays ok
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

superviking805 wrote:
I have owned or played everything on your list.

My first choice would be a Marcinkiewicz but this one was too expensive for me and I don't think they make them anymore.

I would avoid any of the Jupiter 416 series or the large bell variant, don't like the sound or the wrap.

All the Carol pocket horns play very well. However, I don't like the wrap.

All the rest have the good Benge wrap, feel better in my hands.

I believe Manchester and Schragerl are made at the same factory in China which also produces a Jupiter710 and Phaeton. They mostly all play the same.

Stomvi I have tried 2, one good and one I did not like as it played too dark.

Kanstul, best of the bunch, get the silver one currently on ebay!

I own a The Marcato, same wrap as the Kanstul, plays ok


Thanks for all that! Yea I really would jump on the used Kanstul, but I asked the seller if they have been the sole owner (based on prior sales, probably not, though that's not a huge deal) or if there are any issues with the playability of the horn despite the fact that it visually appears to be in decent condition. No answer, though, so I'd be worried about just buying it outright before hearing from them first.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the seller is Darling Deceiver, he is selling his late father's collection and doesn't know many details. I passed on his earlier sales due to the price being almost too good and that name. I have since done business and was very happy, particularly with extra cases and good mouthpieces not listed in the ad.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
If the seller is Darling Deceiver, he is selling his late father's collection and doesn't know many details. I passed on his earlier sales due to the price being almost too good and that name. I have since done business and was very happy, particularly with extra cases and good mouthpieces not listed in the ad.

Oh cool. Thanks. Maybe I should jump on it then. Speaking of cases, I'd probably have to find one for it, too. Think I should just try messaging again to see if there's one available?
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tickticktock wrote:
Speaking of cases, I'd probably have to find one for it, too. Think I should just try messaging again to see if there's one available?

I think you are in luck -- if you look at the first and fourth pictures in the auction listing, you will see that the horn is resting against what is in all probability its case. Message the seller to be sure, though, and to verify that it is included.
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brother
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

superviking805 wrote:
I have owned or played everything on your list.

My first choice would be a Marcinkiewicz but this one was too expensive for me and I don't think they make them anymore.

I would avoid any of the Jupiter 416 series or the large bell variant, don't like the sound or the wrap.

All the Carol pocket horns play very well. However, I don't like the wrap.

All the rest have the good Benge wrap, feel better in my hands.

I believe Manchester and Schragerl are made at the same factory in China which also produces a Jupiter710 and Phaeton. They mostly all play the same.

Stomvi I have tried 2, one good and one I did not like as it played too dark.

Kanstul, best of the bunch, get the silver one currently on ebay!

I own a The Marcato, same wrap as the Kanstul, plays ok


Interesting about the dark Stomvi. I've found most of the pockets I've played to be too bright and thin and not just as a result of the bell / face proximity. That includes a Kanstul I owned.
Could you elaborate on the Stomvi? I'm thinking about taking a gamble on one. Do you think there is QC problem with them maybe?
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superviking805
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago at ITG conference I played a pocket at the Stomvi booth. Later I spotted one that and attendee brought and asked if I could try it too. The second horn had a wonderful dark tone but I felt it took more effort from me to produce sizzle. I'm not a fan of playing dark. The owner however was very pleased with the sound
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tickticktock wrote:
huntman10 wrote:
If the seller is Darling Deceiver, he is selling his late father's collection and doesn't know many details. I passed on his earlier sales due to the price being almost too good and that name. I have since done business and was very happy, particularly with extra cases and good mouthpieces not listed in the ad.

Oh cool. Thanks. Maybe I should jump on it then. Speaking of cases, I'd probably have to find one for it, too. Think I should just try messaging again to see if there's one available?


I would try, but I don't know. We exchanged a couple of emails (eBay messages, actually, I don't have his personal email) but I did ask him about combining a couple of other horns in one offer, but he didn't respond. That may not be so big a deal, since my repair guy bought one of those two a few days later, after I showed him the trumpet I got first. So my offer became moot. In fact, my repair guy wound up making me an offer I just couldn't refuse for the horn I had bought from this guy first!
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
I would try, but I don't know. We exchanged a couple of emails (eBay messages, actually, I don't have his personal email) but I did ask him about combining a couple of other horns in one offer, but he didn't respond. That may not be so big a deal, since my repair guy bought one of those two a few days later, after I showed him the trumpet I got first. So my offer became moot. In fact, my repair guy wound up making me an offer I just couldn't refuse for the horn I had bought from this guy first!

Tried, but not expecting an answer either way. :p
Halflip wrote:
tickticktock wrote:
Speaking of cases, I'd probably have to find one for it, too. Think I should just try messaging again to see if there's one available?

I think you are in luck -- if you look at the first and fourth pictures in the auction listing, you will see that the horn is resting against what is in all probability its case. Message the seller to be sure, though, and to verify that it is included.

Good eye, that's probably true!
superviking805 wrote:
Years ago at ITG conference I played a pocket at the Stomvi booth. Later I spotted one that and attendee brought and asked if I could try it too. The second horn had a wonderful dark tone but I felt it took more effort from me to produce sizzle. I'm not a fan of playing dark. The owner however was very pleased with the sound

Hm, this has me pondering the right path as I prefer a bit of a darker sound... I play a 72 bell. Wish I could try out both the Kanstul and Stomvi in person.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Kanstul. It plays great.

I had an Amado key added to the 3rd slide.

I had a Mt. Vernon-style 1st slide saddle added with the saddle being on the bottom of the slide. That configuration fits the way I'm the most comfy holding the horn. The Mt. Vernon-style saddle assembly made it easy to attach to the slide crook without any other alterations or modifications.
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gregplo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Carol Brass CPT-300 (older model) with the large bell, and it was a very good horn. I sold that horn and bought the Carol Brass Arturo Sandoval Pocket Trumpet, and love it. It has a larger bore (.464) and a larger bell than the CPT-300/CPT-3000 large bell models, and it has the Saturn Water Keys, which work great. If you get an opportunity to try one out, I highly recommend doing so...
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
I have a Kanstul. It plays great.

I had an Amado key added to the 3rd slide.

I had a Mt. Vernon-style 1st slide saddle added with the saddle being on the bottom of the slide. That configuration fits the way I'm the most comfy holding the horn. The Mt. Vernon-style saddle assembly made it easy to attach to the slide crook without any other alterations or modifications.

Cool mods. I don't know exactly what you mean about the saddle, though. Another key on the 3rd slide would be nice, but I'm used to pulling it on my Bach anyway, so not too worried.

I ordered the Kanstul. Hopefully it's in as good a condition as it appears to be. I figure if it's a good deal (seems underpriced and I'm guessing the only reason it wasn't bought already is the lack of info on the listing), it's worth buying even if I end up not liking how it plays/sounds since I can probably just resell it at break even, if not more, and try something else.

gregplo wrote:
I had a Carol Brass CPT-300 (older model) with the large bell, and it was a very good horn. I sold that horn and bought the Carol Brass Arturo Sandoval Pocket Trumpet, and love it. It has a larger bore (.464) and a larger bell than the CPT-300/CPT-3000 large bell models, and it has the Saturn Water Keys, which work great. If you get an opportunity to try one out, I highly recommend doing so...

Interesting. That Sandoval model looks pretty nice, and I've never played a red bell. Unfortunately, I won't get to play any of these in person first.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tickticktock wrote:
I don't know exactly what you mean about the saddle, though.

You can see a saddle on this page. Just search for saddle after the page opens.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tickticktock wrote:
I don't know exactly what you mean about the saddle, though.

Another example:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/trumpets/bb_trumpets/ytr-8310z_02/index.html

The saddle is on the first slide. Typically, your thumb fills the role of 'cowboy'.
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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"


Last edited by Halflip on Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean I don't understand exactly how it'd fit on the bottom of the 3rd slide and be reachable. Seems like you'd have to reach around and under the the bell tube, then use your pinky or something. If I understood correctly...
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll be home in a few days & will take post pics of the bottom saddle.

For me it’s more comfy to hold the horn with my left thumb under the 1st slide. Puts the horn at a better bell-down angle for me.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tickticktock wrote:
I mean I don't understand exactly how it'd fit on the bottom of the 3rd slide and be reachable.

I don't think trpthrld was talking about putting it on the third slide. He only said that the amado water key was added to the third slide. I think he added the saddle to the first slide, but on the underside.

I have a trigger on the first slide of my Benge pocket trumpet; there's no way to add a ring or anything else to the third slide. I just pull the third slide out a fixed amount to compensate for 2-3 intonation issues.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, as posted earlier, I had a Mt. Vernon-style thumb saddle added to the bottom side of the FIRST slide.

It works for me, YMMV.
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tickticktock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, that makes a lot more sense.

I tend to hold more parallel to the ground, but that's definitely something to keep in mind depending on how comfortable it is holding normally.
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