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micka57330 New Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2022 Posts: 3
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: Realistic to start at 35 for playing jazz? |
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Hi, long story short, do you think it's realistic to start playing trumpet at 35 for playing in big band and imprrovising? With life like dayjob, family, friends...
Living in an apartment too and would 95% of the time play with a mute.
Would have between 30 minutes to 1 hour daily.
Was thinking of taking lessons for something like a year with a good jazz teacher for having the basic things done right and continue by myself to learn by ear. |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1825 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Have you played trumpet in the past? Piano? |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Are you starting trumpet from scratch, or do you have a foundation to build on?
It's been a general observation of mine that adult beginners sometimes don't appreciate the kind of time it takes to learn an instrument to a level where they can take it out and play well enough to gig, even at an amateur level.
Consider, I started trumpet at age 11, but I was 17 before I was playing well enough to play a gig well enough to command a paycheck - played the Clarke Trumpet Voluntary and the Purcell Trumpet Tune for the processional and recessional, respectively. I also wasn't an average player - I was winning solo and ensemble contest awards at the regional music contests, going to honor bands, etc. That was 7 years into it.
Again, it's just a general observation but many adults seem to think they can circumvent that learning curve because they have an adult's work ethic and focus. They can't.
I was 33 when I started playing drums for a church praise and worship band. I was always able to sit behind drums and play beats, basic fills, know where the "1" was, etc. I played regularly, practiced regularly, and worked on it. I just assumed that since I was already a proficient player on trumpet, and since I could already play drums in a pretty basic way, that I could just transfer that musical knowledge to the drums and I'd pick it right up. On the surface, sure - I was getting by, performing regularly with the praise team rotation - usually every other week, 5-6 songs per service, and learning new music all the time.
It was 5 YEARS before I got to the point where I could listen back to a recording where I'd played and not cringe about something I'd drummed. To be fair, as a working musician, I'm my own biggest critic, but the point is, it took a while for me to really settle in to where I sounded good consistently to my ears.
My question to you is, how dedicated are you going to be to the process? Are you willing to suck for a while before you get to the point where you can actually make it happen in a more polished and consistent way?
Are you willing to dig in to overcome issues you may not even realize you're going to have? I ask because in my own experience as a trumpet player, I didn't have to overcome a lot of obstacles. I always had a decent sound, I didn't have issues with range up to 2nd ledger C, and I didn't have any major issues with technique. You may not be so lucky.
These are questions only you are going to be able to answer, but I hope I shed some light on some things to maybe consider. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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peanuts56 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2021 Posts: 229
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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peanuts56 wrote: | Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient. |
The person with that kind of dedication, determination and patience is not the norm. I don't say that to be pessimistic, but rather realistic.
I know so many people who dabble, and nearly as many who truly love playing trumpet, and they even work on it pretty hard, but they just can't seem to get much better than a certain level of mediocrity.
For every person who meets the example you cited, there are probably a hundred who match more closely to what I've described. That's why I posted all I did above. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm trying to illustrate the reality that not everyone has the ability to play trumpet well enough to go out and gig it. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I would say it depends on your ability to learn and also where you live.
If you live away from a large city, you might be able to do some jobs in a year or two in restaurants and lounges.
If you live in a large city like Chicago with literally hundreds of high quality players, you have virtually zero chance.
It's up to you how hard you work and you are still young. Who knows what you might do in 5 years?
Go ahead and give it a go.
R. Tomasek |
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LaTrompeta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 867 Location: West Side, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, why not? I'm picking up jazz piano & organ at 33. Doesn't make a difference. Sure, I'll never go pro, but I can pick up whatever I set my mind to. _________________ Please join me as well at:
https://trumpetboards.com |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Realistic to start at 35 for playing jazz? |
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micka57330 wrote: | ... Was thinking of taking lessons for something like a year with a good jazz teacher for having the basic things done right and continue by myself to learn by ear. |
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Learning the 'basic things' could take quite a while - and for that you'd want a good 'basics' teacher to learn trumpet playing skills and fundamentals. Once you have decent skill for general playing, that would be the time to get into the the jazz stuff.
It's sort of like saying you want to become a good 'interpretive dance' ice skater. FIRST, you'd need to learn the basics of general ice skating! _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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The answer to, "Is 35 too late?" is "No".
But realize that you get of it what you put into it (generally).
These are guestimates, but 20 minutes to an hour is pretty much limited to preserving what you've got. If you're a beginner, you will see some improvement at this pace for a while, but then you will even off. At this stage, to capitalize on what you've learned, you need that additional hour. More to increase your learning curve.
I didn't notice a response, but a practice mute will let you practice when you otherwise can't but, if it's possible, find a place to practice open-horned. Church, car, school, underground parking lot, whatever. You have to realize that as soon as that mute comes off, your resistance instantly changes and so will your tone.
Look, realistically it is a big, long-term hurdle. You can do it, plenty of time left, but make sure you enjoy the here&now, the journey and not be fixated just on only the destination. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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peanuts56 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2021 Posts: 229
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | peanuts56 wrote: | Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient. |
The person with that kind of dedication, determination and patience is not the norm. I don't say that to be pessimistic, but rather realistic.
I know so many people who dabble, and nearly as many who truly love playing trumpet, and they even work on it pretty hard, but they just can't seem to get much better than a certain level of mediocrity.
For every person who meets the example you cited, there are probably a hundred who match more closely to what I've described. That's why I posted all I did above. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm trying to illustrate the reality that not everyone has the ability to play trumpet well enough to go out and gig it. |
Very true Patrick. Despite his impressive chops, he wasn't very musical and had no concept of swing. He sat in a couple of times with a college jazz ensemble I was in. It seems he spent all his time on technical exercises. I'm wondering how he found time at 30 to practice. |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Getting to the point where you could join a community big band, or find some hobbyist musicians to play some jazz with, isn't at all unrealistic IMO as long as you're not in any hurry. If you're aspiring to get closer to a professional level of playing one day, you'll be more reliant on turning out to be an outlier! It would be well worth getting an idea of what's going on in your area in terms of pure amateur music.
I'm touching on a big, complex topic here and I'm cautious about making generalisations but on the whole I'd say that you'll have an easier time of it if you're content with playing written music rather than aspiring to play improvised jazz. It's hard to go in to any depth on this without having a clear idea of where you're coming from though. Could you share a bit more about what, if any, musical background you have and what inspired you to want to play the trumpet, jazz and big band music?
Mike |
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TrumpetJoel Veteran Member
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 131 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hey OP, I respect what others have said so far but I find myself disagreeing with the general tone which I find too cautionary.
You say you have 30-1hr daily. If you do that every day, that’s phenomenal, and I think you can do what you set out to do. Here’s your menu:
1. Make sure to keep perspective at the front of your mind. Play music and trumpet to foster creativity and positivity in your life. Know the goal, work for the goal, but don’t let the goal get in your way. It’ll come.
2. Get the best local teacher you can find, and try to take one lesson per week. Listen to the teacher. Diligently practice what they say.
3. Listen to great trumpet players making great music. Do this during your commutes, while you make dinner, anywhere you can sneak it in.
4. Play every day.
5. Play every day.
6. Play every day.
Practice mutes are fine. I don’t recommend it everywhere but for your scenario the Yamaha silent brass might be the way——you want to hear the most accurate version of yourself possible to improve quickly. If you’re in just a regular acoustic-dampening practice mute, you can’t hear your tone and that’s problematic for a novice.
Most of my adult students that historically profess to have similar practice time possibilities to yours don’t maximize it—life gets in the way, or they get bored, or whatever. But: 30-60 minutes of real face time is great—and 30-60 minutes of dedicated, intelligent, small-goal-oriented, thoughtful practice is tremendous. So if you can do that, I bet you have a very solid chance to get where you want to go.
Good luck! _________________ Principal Trumpet, United States Coast Guard Band
Co-President/Supreme Chancellor of Lubrication, Monster Oil LLC
www.monsteroil.net |
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micka57330 New Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2022 Posts: 3
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.
I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.
Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.
Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2047 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Just get a teacher and go for it. Will take time but I know a guy who had never played an instrument, then at 50 decided to learn tuba and he did it. Playing in our community orchestra now and is doing good. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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jscahoy Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 415
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:50 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | I didn't notice a response, but a practice mute will let you practice when you otherwise can't but, if it's possible, find a place to practice open-horned. Church, school, underground parking lot, whatever. You have to realize that as soon as that mute comes off, your resistance instantly changes and so will your tone.
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Totally agree. Having been in that position, IMO 95% on a practice mute is way too much. Not to mention most of them sound awful. OP, you'll soon find yourself craving for much more than 5% open horn time. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Is 35 too late? You'll never know until you try.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:25 am Post subject: |
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micka57330 wrote: | Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.
I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.
Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.
Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class. |
Okay, that gives the foundation we were looking for. At age 60 I retired. I hadn't played much trumpet the preceeding years and hadn't played french horn since college. I worked trumpet up to be able to play first parts in community band. Then did the same for french horn. Then euphonium. Then tuba. I'm now 66 and alternate playing trumpet, euphonium and tuba every day.
So, I say you can certainly do it. If I were you, I would give trombone some time too. I've found each instrument has value to the others.
But, the other question is time. I have endless time now. You may not. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: |
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micka57330 wrote: | Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.
I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.
Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.
Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class. |
All of this would have been beneficial in your first post, and would have changed my response.
Since you are already a musician and already have a foundation with embouchure and other fundamentals, sure - dig in and see what you can learn. The best case is that you pick it up and it takes right off. The worst case is that you'll find out whether or not it's going to be in your wheelhouse. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:49 am Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | All of this would have been beneficial in your first post |
^^^^ _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:58 am Post subject: |
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You can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something - your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.
Steve Jobs _________________ Bill Bergren |
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