• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Realistic to start at 35 for playing jazz?


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
micka57330
New Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2022
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject: Realistic to start at 35 for playing jazz? Reply with quote

Hi, long story short, do you think it's realistic to start playing trumpet at 35 for playing in big band and imprrovising? With life like dayjob, family, friends...

Living in an apartment too and would 95% of the time play with a mute.

Would have between 30 minutes to 1 hour daily.

Was thinking of taking lessons for something like a year with a good jazz teacher for having the basic things done right and continue by myself to learn by ear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1802
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you played trumpet in the past? Piano?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you starting trumpet from scratch, or do you have a foundation to build on?

It's been a general observation of mine that adult beginners sometimes don't appreciate the kind of time it takes to learn an instrument to a level where they can take it out and play well enough to gig, even at an amateur level.

Consider, I started trumpet at age 11, but I was 17 before I was playing well enough to play a gig well enough to command a paycheck - played the Clarke Trumpet Voluntary and the Purcell Trumpet Tune for the processional and recessional, respectively. I also wasn't an average player - I was winning solo and ensemble contest awards at the regional music contests, going to honor bands, etc. That was 7 years into it.

Again, it's just a general observation but many adults seem to think they can circumvent that learning curve because they have an adult's work ethic and focus. They can't.

I was 33 when I started playing drums for a church praise and worship band. I was always able to sit behind drums and play beats, basic fills, know where the "1" was, etc. I played regularly, practiced regularly, and worked on it. I just assumed that since I was already a proficient player on trumpet, and since I could already play drums in a pretty basic way, that I could just transfer that musical knowledge to the drums and I'd pick it right up. On the surface, sure - I was getting by, performing regularly with the praise team rotation - usually every other week, 5-6 songs per service, and learning new music all the time.

It was 5 YEARS before I got to the point where I could listen back to a recording where I'd played and not cringe about something I'd drummed. To be fair, as a working musician, I'm my own biggest critic, but the point is, it took a while for me to really settle in to where I sounded good consistently to my ears.

My question to you is, how dedicated are you going to be to the process? Are you willing to suck for a while before you get to the point where you can actually make it happen in a more polished and consistent way?

Are you willing to dig in to overcome issues you may not even realize you're going to have? I ask because in my own experience as a trumpet player, I didn't have to overcome a lot of obstacles. I always had a decent sound, I didn't have issues with range up to 2nd ledger C, and I didn't have any major issues with technique. You may not be so lucky.

These are questions only you are going to be able to answer, but I hope I shed some light on some things to maybe consider.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peanuts56
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2021
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peanuts56 wrote:
Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient.

The person with that kind of dedication, determination and patience is not the norm. I don't say that to be pessimistic, but rather realistic.

I know so many people who dabble, and nearly as many who truly love playing trumpet, and they even work on it pretty hard, but they just can't seem to get much better than a certain level of mediocrity.

For every person who meets the example you cited, there are probably a hundred who match more closely to what I've described. That's why I posted all I did above. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm trying to illustrate the reality that not everyone has the ability to play trumpet well enough to go out and gig it.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say it depends on your ability to learn and also where you live.

If you live away from a large city, you might be able to do some jobs in a year or two in restaurants and lounges.

If you live in a large city like Chicago with literally hundreds of high quality players, you have virtually zero chance.

It's up to you how hard you work and you are still young. Who knows what you might do in 5 years?

Go ahead and give it a go.

R. Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LaTrompeta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 867
Location: West Side, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, why not? I'm picking up jazz piano & organ at 33. Doesn't make a difference. Sure, I'll never go pro, but I can pick up whatever I set my mind to.
_________________
Please join me as well at:
https://trumpetboards.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3274
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Realistic to start at 35 for playing jazz? Reply with quote

micka57330 wrote:
... Was thinking of taking lessons for something like a year with a good jazz teacher for having the basic things done right and continue by myself to learn by ear.

-------------------------
Learning the 'basic things' could take quite a while - and for that you'd want a good 'basics' teacher to learn trumpet playing skills and fundamentals. Once you have decent skill for general playing, that would be the time to get into the the jazz stuff.

It's sort of like saying you want to become a good 'interpretive dance' ice skater. FIRST, you'd need to learn the basics of general ice skating!
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer to, "Is 35 too late?" is "No".
But realize that you get of it what you put into it (generally).

These are guestimates, but 20 minutes to an hour is pretty much limited to preserving what you've got. If you're a beginner, you will see some improvement at this pace for a while, but then you will even off. At this stage, to capitalize on what you've learned, you need that additional hour. More to increase your learning curve.

I didn't notice a response, but a practice mute will let you practice when you otherwise can't but, if it's possible, find a place to practice open-horned. Church, car, school, underground parking lot, whatever. You have to realize that as soon as that mute comes off, your resistance instantly changes and so will your tone.

Look, realistically it is a big, long-term hurdle. You can do it, plenty of time left, but make sure you enjoy the here&now, the journey and not be fixated just on only the destination.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn


Last edited by kehaulani on Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peanuts56
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2021
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
peanuts56 wrote:
Get a good teacher and just go.
Years ago, I met a guy who started around 30. He was maybe 33-34 when I met him. He had no prior music experience. He studied with someone who was a Claude Gordon advocate. He basically locked himself in a room and worked the Gordon System 3-4 hours daily. He had a workable range to an A over high C and could get the double C most days.
It's never too late. Work hard and don't be impatient.

The person with that kind of dedication, determination and patience is not the norm. I don't say that to be pessimistic, but rather realistic.

I know so many people who dabble, and nearly as many who truly love playing trumpet, and they even work on it pretty hard, but they just can't seem to get much better than a certain level of mediocrity.

For every person who meets the example you cited, there are probably a hundred who match more closely to what I've described. That's why I posted all I did above. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm trying to illustrate the reality that not everyone has the ability to play trumpet well enough to go out and gig it.


Very true Patrick. Despite his impressive chops, he wasn't very musical and had no concept of swing. He sat in a couple of times with a college jazz ensemble I was in. It seems he spent all his time on technical exercises. I'm wondering how he found time at 30 to practice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Prestage
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 714
Location: Hereford, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting to the point where you could join a community big band, or find some hobbyist musicians to play some jazz with, isn't at all unrealistic IMO as long as you're not in any hurry. If you're aspiring to get closer to a professional level of playing one day, you'll be more reliant on turning out to be an outlier! It would be well worth getting an idea of what's going on in your area in terms of pure amateur music.

I'm touching on a big, complex topic here and I'm cautious about making generalisations but on the whole I'd say that you'll have an easier time of it if you're content with playing written music rather than aspiring to play improvised jazz. It's hard to go in to any depth on this without having a clear idea of where you're coming from though. Could you share a bit more about what, if any, musical background you have and what inspired you to want to play the trumpet, jazz and big band music?

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrumpetJoel
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey OP, I respect what others have said so far but I find myself disagreeing with the general tone which I find too cautionary.

You say you have 30-1hr daily. If you do that every day, that’s phenomenal, and I think you can do what you set out to do. Here’s your menu:

1. Make sure to keep perspective at the front of your mind. Play music and trumpet to foster creativity and positivity in your life. Know the goal, work for the goal, but don’t let the goal get in your way. It’ll come.
2. Get the best local teacher you can find, and try to take one lesson per week. Listen to the teacher. Diligently practice what they say.
3. Listen to great trumpet players making great music. Do this during your commutes, while you make dinner, anywhere you can sneak it in.
4. Play every day.
5. Play every day.
6. Play every day.

Practice mutes are fine. I don’t recommend it everywhere but for your scenario the Yamaha silent brass might be the way——you want to hear the most accurate version of yourself possible to improve quickly. If you’re in just a regular acoustic-dampening practice mute, you can’t hear your tone and that’s problematic for a novice.

Most of my adult students that historically profess to have similar practice time possibilities to yours don’t maximize it—life gets in the way, or they get bored, or whatever. But: 30-60 minutes of real face time is great—and 30-60 minutes of dedicated, intelligent, small-goal-oriented, thoughtful practice is tremendous. So if you can do that, I bet you have a very solid chance to get where you want to go.

Good luck!
_________________
Principal Trumpet, United States Coast Guard Band
Co-President/Supreme Chancellor of Lubrication, Monster Oil LLC
www.monsteroil.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
micka57330
New Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2022
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.

I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.

Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.

Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2020
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a teacher and go for it. Will take time but I know a guy who had never played an instrument, then at 50 decided to learn tuba and he did it. Playing in our community orchestra now and is doing good.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jscahoy
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I didn't notice a response, but a practice mute will let you practice when you otherwise can't but, if it's possible, find a place to practice open-horned. Church, school, underground parking lot, whatever. You have to realize that as soon as that mute comes off, your resistance instantly changes and so will your tone.

Totally agree. Having been in that position, IMO 95% on a practice mute is way too much. Not to mention most of them sound awful. OP, you'll soon find yourself craving for much more than 5% open horn time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is 35 too late? You'll never know until you try.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2610
Location: Anacortes, WA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

micka57330 wrote:
Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.

I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.

Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.

Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class.


Okay, that gives the foundation we were looking for. At age 60 I retired. I hadn't played much trumpet the preceeding years and hadn't played french horn since college. I worked trumpet up to be able to play first parts in community band. Then did the same for french horn. Then euphonium. Then tuba. I'm now 66 and alternate playing trumpet, euphonium and tuba every day.

So, I say you can certainly do it. If I were you, I would give trombone some time too. I've found each instrument has value to the others.

But, the other question is time. I have endless time now. You may not.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

micka57330 wrote:
Hi, thank you for all those feedbacks.

I've played trombone but stop 10 years ago.

Learning classical for 5 years and addibg jazz the last 2 years but it was too much and never really have time too dig into jazz.

Sucked to play by ear and in harmony class.

All of this would have been beneficial in your first post, and would have changed my response.

Since you are already a musician and already have a foundation with embouchure and other fundamentals, sure - dig in and see what you can learn. The best case is that you pick it up and it takes right off. The worst case is that you'll find out whether or not it's going to be in your wheelhouse.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
All of this would have been beneficial in your first post

^^^^
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something - your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.

Steve Jobs
_________________
Bill Bergren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group