Mp suggestion for Conn Constellation 28A long cornet

[Shebulba]

Hello!

I have a great condition 1955 Conn Constellation 28A long cornet on the way home to me that I'm looking forward to try very much! As i understand it's quite mouthpiece sensitive and has a broad sound pallette depending on the mp used.

I am though a bit confused with the fact that it's made to use short shank mouthpieces and what I've have understood there at not as many of those to choose from when buying mouthpieces today? It's being delivered with a (original?) Conn 4 short shank mouthpieces that to my understanding is rather good, so it's a good start.

I have read quite a bit but it's still a bit confusing. So I wonder, what brands do make short shanks mps I can use with this horn and what is a good suggestion for a short shank mp that would make this instrument sound more like a trumpet? I would like to have the options to make the horn blend in well in different situations.

The world of cornet mouthpieces is overall a bit confusion for me (foremost a trumpet player) so any guidance overall iin this world would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for your time!

Regards
Henrik

[lipshurt]

Not short shank
Regular Bach size shank and length
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[Shebulba]

Thank you for your reply.

I don't really understand though. Everything I've read has got me thinking that short shank mps is what the horn plays best with, can you elaborate on what you mean with regular Bach size shank and length to a cornet novice?

Thanks!
_________________
Conn Constellation 28A (1955)
Yamaha YCR-733
Benge 90B
Hüttl Premier Superior (1950-60)

[romajore]

If you haven’t already, check out the Conn Loyalist. This article is about the long and short of cornet mouthpieces.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle34.html


I’ve owned a few mid-1950s to early 1960s Conn cornets and some worked with a standard Bach cornet mouthpiece, but others worked way better with a Conn Cornet mouthpiece or a cornet piece with a Conn 4 mouthpiece taper. You need to try once you have the horn in hand. The Conn 28A is a great horn.

Good Luck.

[Shebulba]

Thank you romajore, I will read up on that site once more.

Sounds like it's a bit trial and error then, but it's gonna be fun and still a lot to learn about mouthpieces.
_________________
Conn Constellation 28A (1955)
Yamaha YCR-733
Benge 90B
Hüttl Premier Superior (1950-60)

[Halflip]

[delano]

I had some kind of the same problem with my 80A which I prefer to play with a trumpet mp. Some of these old Conns have already worn receivers cause of abuse with Bach tapered mouthpieces. If not the Bach taper (and langth) aint right.
Indeed Mark Curry can make you a mp with the right dimensions. My solution was a Jim New made backbore with the Conn short shank taper with Warburton thread so I can use any cup on it. Jim New copied for this the bb of a Conn 4 cornet mp. This is in my experience quite a not to open trumpet bb alike.
He made it in the Kanstul era but I think he will still have the specs. You can find him on the internet as James R. New.
I play my 80A with that bb and an Arturo Warburton cup and I love it.
And maybe Mark Curry can also produce such a bb.

[GordonH]

Some mouthpieces have a short shank to solve tuning issues with very deep cups. i.e. Denis Wick mouthpieces have a wide throat and a shorter length to pull the pitch up.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[delano]

[Dale Proctor]

Here’s a comparative cornet mouthpiece photo I took. Left to right - a Conn 4 Improved Precision, a Conn 4 Precision “short shank”, and a Wick 4B.


_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Shebulba]

Thank you all for your inputs, I learn a lot from you!

I don't want to ruin the receiver by using long shank mouthpieces so I hope I can manage to get a good short shank I like.

So the wick is even shorter than a Conn short shank mp? I do have two from Wick so it will be interesting to compare them to the Conn 4.
_________________
Conn Constellation 28A (1955)
Yamaha YCR-733
Benge 90B
Hüttl Premier Superior (1950-60)

[Halflip]

[ThatDude]

The 28a is tricky mpc wise. I cut off the conn 4 bb and opened it to a 25 throat and it worked well for a while but my playing changed. I then alighted the valves and now the horn feels too open. Love the sound but still have not found the right mpc.

[Shebulba]

So I got my horn today, it's beautiful!

There was this Conn 4 mp with it, but I was surprised to see the lettering of the mp not be vertical on the mp like the short shank models is supposed to be. Instead it's horizontal like a long shank, but it doesn't have the collar the long shank version is supposed to have. So, what type of shank is it? Can anyone tell me from the photo below.

I also got a Caldwell Nylacup 10 1/2C and a Stork Custom Vacchiano 2C mp with the horn. Are those shirt och long shanks?
Beside is my DW RW4B and 3B. They are even shorter, but does that mean that it's a short shank to just because they are shorter?

Thank you!


[img]
_________________
Conn Constellation 28A (1955)
Yamaha YCR-733
Benge 90B
Hüttl Premier Superior (1950-60)

[Halflip]

Per this article:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle34.html

Conn "short shank" mouthpieces are 2 and 1/2 inches long, while Conn "long shank" mouthpieces are 2 and 3/4 inches long. If your Conn 4 is 2.5 inches long, it is likely a "short shank". (The orientation of the lettering is not as significant as the absence of the collar.)

You are kind of 'hung up' on the whole "short shank/long shank" terminology thing. A mouthpiece will fit the horn properly if it has the right taper and insertion depth for which the horn was designed. The article I reference above notes that the Conn "short shank" taper is slightly different from most mouthpieces (see the Jim New quote in paragraph 10). So, the other mouthpieces will work in horns designed for the Conn "short shank" taper if they have the same taper. A mouthpiece maker or technician could measure that for you. Beyond that, if the insertion depth works for the horn (it plays with a good tone and stays in pretty good tune throughout the range), then that mouthpiece is a good match for the horn.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

[Richard III]

Play the mouthpiece that sounds the best with the horn. Stop worrying about details.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[huntman10]

I haven't seen a Caldwell mouthpiece like that in YEARS. Caldwell was the music store in Abilene TX whose large repair facility became the Reynolds plant (while Reynolds was part of Olds) in the late 60's. I live about 90 miles from there, still. Later, Conn moved its brass assembly there, before sending their manufacturing to Japan, briefly. I think Zig Kanstul took us through the facility when I toured it in June of 1967 while I was at a band camp.

Anyway, in about 1965 or so, they gave some of those mouthpieces to brass section leaders in the area. I think the selling point was that the cups wouldn't freeze to your chops in the late season football games. At least they told me that. We just kept our mouthpieces in our pockets when we weren't playing. I never felt that piece had enough "ZING"!
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[Shebulba]