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A= 425-430 Herz... Strange Couesnon trumpet



 
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krax
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:09 am    Post subject: A= 425-430 Herz... Strange Couesnon trumpet Reply with quote

Well, I have a Couesnon trumpet that tunes to about 425-430 Hz. According to the grenade it was made in 1951, so quite modern. I've never heard of any low-low-pitch like that, so I'm just trying to find an explanation. Any ideas?

425 is low but It's still a bit left to tune it to A, so I cannot see it being an A-trumpet. However there are signs of soldering on the tuning slide, but all parts still look original and the soldering is really well made. If it was altered, can you imagine any reason to do it? It is in tune with itself though, so I find it hard to believe that it wasn't made like it is.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1951, they may have still been using A=435, so there's that for starters. Then this horn is about 70 years old, so who knows what someone might have done to it in the meantime. If I were you I would do an image search for Couesnon trumpets and compare my horn with the images...doing this search just now I came up with a 1951 Couesnon...maybe it is yours? I'm sure there are others and various models. The one I saw has a strange tuning slide with an extension in it, so IDK what that's about. I'd have to search some more to see if there was some kind of special tuning for the French military or something in that era that would dictate the use of some special slide extension. Maybe the horn originally came with more than one...let us know what you find out.
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royjohn
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once read that modern pitch only became true standard (i.e., orchestras and bands would finally adopt it with new instruments) in the 1960s in Europe, but I am not an expert on the matter.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about this and it's just possible that this was a band instrument that came with an extra extension slide (the 1951 Couesnon I saw pictured had an extension (spacer) between the leadpipe and the tuning slide) for very hot weather. There could have been one for playing outside in cold weather and another for playing in very hot weather.

Outside of the horn just having the wrong slide in it, that's the only explanation I can think of. IIRC, there are some old Couesnon catalogs somewhere on line, and one of these might help if it talked about various slides.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at the Couesnon 1934 catalog and apparently, from what I am able to tell, both their cornets and trumpets were made in A, Bb and C. 415 Hz would be Ab, so perhaps, allowing for a little slide pulling so you could tune in a range, this horn was actually built in A.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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krax
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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Location: Hofors, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your replies!

Mine does not have an extension and I don't think the one you've seen on the net have one either, if it's the one with an art deco bracing. Mine's on the internet too, the one with a blue background. As you may see, it is possible that the female tubing on the tuning slide has been exchanged for longer bits, but the bracing certainly is original and the solderings look factory made. And as I said, if that has happened... then why? Everything's so well done that it's hard to believe it being a mistake.

It is possible to tune it to Ab, but the usual stop rod for fast tuning to (written) A is there too.

The idea about a hot weather slide was a new one! Why not?

I've also thought about the possibility of a special order for a certain band playing in a low pitch. I guess that's the most probable answer as long as nothing else can be proved. I've bought and played many old French trumpets, cornets and flugelhorns, different brands, well known and not so well known, and they have all been possible to tune to 440. This is an oddity and that's why I'm confused.
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