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PLEASE HELP ME DESIGN MY NEW TEETH!!! (urgent)



 
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henkesweden
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: PLEASE HELP ME DESIGN MY NEW TEETH!!! (urgent) Reply with quote

Hello all Trumpet-teachers.
Please help me with an urgent problem.
I broke my upper front teeth in an accident and now the dentist is going to make me new ones in plastic and porsolin/china - screwed into my jaw with titanium screws. I was born with bad teeth =overbite and quite a small radius on my upper jaw. Thats makes the angle between my two frontteeth become rather sharp. Now I have the oportunity to get teet more sutible for trumet playing. IS THERER AN OPTIMAL ANGLE BETWEEN THE FRONT TEET FOR TRUMPET PLAYING? If I dont hear from any of you I will get the angle a litte more flat.

I would be very pleased if someone could get me this advice as fast as posible.
best regards / henrik
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LaBestia
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave you some info in a recent post to contact the DDS who advertises in the ITG Journal.....have you reached out to him?
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: PLEASE HELP ME DESIGN MY NEW TEETH!!! (urgent) Reply with quote

henkesweden wrote:
Hello all Trumpet-teachers.
Please help me with an urgent problem.
I broke my upper front teeth in an accident and now the dentist is going to make me new ones in plastic and porsolin/china - screwed into my jaw with titanium screws. I was born with bad teeth =overbite and quite a small radius on my upper jaw. Thats makes the angle between my two frontteeth become rather sharp. Now I have the oportunity to get teet more sutible for trumet playing. IS THERER AN OPTIMAL ANGLE BETWEEN THE FRONT TEET FOR TRUMPET PLAYING? If I dont hear from any of you I will get the angle a litte more flat.

I would be very pleased if someone could get me this advice as fast as posible.
best regards / henrik


In the summary of recently posted topics on the home page, I thought the subject of this post was cut off, and that you were probably not actually asking for help designing your new teeth. Turns out you are, though.
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Scorpion
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

get them to make you a set of fangs.
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bachstrad72
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were comfortable playing before, I would say go to that. I have dental molds of my teeth as they are now, just in case anything happens. A new set of teeth could present a whole new set of problems. Just something to think about. Best of luck!
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jazz_trpt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have Wayne Bergeron send you a cast of his.
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x3matt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a teacher who had a very similar situation, but with more teeth needing to be replaced. He had his teeth put back in a perfect million dollar smile and his trumpet playing was immediately set back years. The muscles could not adjust and the playing was never the same. Just my two cents, I would keep them the same. Matt
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elgin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m curious how it went.
A ”perfect” set of teeth usually have a flatter surface. So, flat teeth tend to clamp the lips in place, I.e., they can’t contraband relax easily. Not good for trumpet playing.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another topic on this subject, "protruding tooth for notes above the staff," which you might want to look at.

Basically several embouchure authorities talk about placing the embouchure on a high spot on the teeth. I have such a high spot because my two front top teeth are just slightly tilted side to side and that is where I place my mpc. It isn't something I planned, but something I noticed later. The thinking on this kind of placement is that it is easier to move the mpc (embouchure motion) through the range if the embouchure contact is more of a point. If it is a large, flat area, that tends to pin the lips down in one position. Also, if the contact point is smaller, there is more room for blood to flow the embouchure elsewhere.

All that said, I guess it would be better to have some slight irregularity where your embouchure/mpc could "perch." What this would look like in practice, I can't tell you. Maybe if you had the two front teeth canted slightly so that there's a high spot in the middle of your smile? I don't think it takes much. Top teeth or bottom teeth, depending on where you place...high or low. I think someone mentioned there being a dentist who is an embouchure expert with whom you could consult. IDK where you find such, but good luck. The main takeaway is that a completely regular, flat set of teeth probably will not work as well as a slightly irregular set. I thought about using invisalign to straighten out my slightly irregular teeth now that I am retired and have the money and the time, but I decided against it, as I don't want to screw up a good thing and my embouchure works real well now that I have had a few Reinhardt lessons and gotten onto the right "track" [pun intended]. Good luck!
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donovan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can reach out to Brian Macdonald from The Airmen of Note, he has experience with this.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are welcome to contact me directly. I had my top front left tooth broken and crowned in 1983 and it was replaced with a crown that was longer and thicker than the original. I was only 16 at the time and the dentist wouldn’t listen to me. You must find someone that will listen and be patient with you.

The accident cut my lip and broke about ⅓ of my tooth diagonally. I could still play and played an honor orchestra rehearsal that night and did ok. The problems all came with the bonding that would break when trying to get it to the thickness of the original. The dentist assured me that a crown would be exactly like the original and not break. He was wrong and once the crown was on there was nothing else I could convince him to do.

I struggled and got crazy with mouthpieces and made things worse. However, it did lead me to Claude Gordon and we changed several things including a low mouthpiece placement which was a much more important issue for me to fix. The first 3 to 6 months caused me to question if Claude Gordon was to be trusted but I stuck with it because of what I had seen him accomplish with several other students. Within a year I could play so much easier and do things I never knew were possible before that.

I never wanted to change that crown again but as I got older it didn’t look normal regarding color and shape. Your teeth typically change color over time. In 2019 I had the crown redone after talking with the father of one of my students that is a cosmetic dentist and a former trumpet player through college. He knew how important it was to me and promised he would make sure I was complete happy with playing as the priority.

For about 2 months I did whitening trays to get the color of my teeth to what they could be without coffee or wine effects from drinking those things. Then, we planned a Saturday with just the dentist and his wife assisting him and my girlfriend and myself as the only others in his office in a Saturday. We took molds of the original incase we wanted to reverse course. Next he ground down parts of the crown and I played trumpet in his office. It felt good and he was making the shape more normal. That Monday we took off the crown that had been on my stub of a tooth for 36 years. The tooth under the crown was healthy and the dentist took more molds of that to form the underside of the crown. Then he created a temporary crown that matched the color of my tooth and was very good. I went home and played and it felt fine and a couple weeks later we adjusted it again and he had taken more molds prior to that. Once I was happy we took final molds and sent them to a 3D imaging lab and over a month later he took off the temp crown. That crown looked so realistic with the depth of color. However, it didn’t feel as good as the temp crown and the dentist could see a little of that.

I could still play but it wasn’t the same with a little response lost. We ground on the new crown a couple more times and finally it didn’t look right and had lost the color depth as we got past the upper layer of the crown to the more solid white color under that. It because clear we had to do it again and the dentist actually paid for the second crown to be done at a different lab he had used for a very long time that did everything by hand. That worked and looked great.

If I hadn’t had a dentist willing to listen I would have had the same situation again.

Prior to this I kept the same exact practice routine and practiced every day and I don’t change mouthpieces or horns. I knew I needed to have a way to evaluate the changes. During this process my playing felt strange and I first thought it was the changes to the crown. However, it was really caused by using an Albuterol inhaler to address a dry cough I sometimes get during the winter. Once I figured that out and stopped the inhaler my playing we totally normal again and I told the dentist.

I am sure the changes were much easier because my mouthpiece placement it at least ⅔ to ¾ top lip and everything can vibrate much more free than when I used to have it ¼ top lip. That plus the consistency of a daily smart practice routine were super important.

Damage to teeth is traumatic in lots of ways. But, there is a way to fix any of it if you’re patient and have a good plan. Contact me directly if you wish.

Jeff
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, guys . . . the OP was facing the dental problem 15 YEARS AGO. Elgin resurrected the thread out of a desire to hear how things went.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
Um, guys . . . the OP was facing the dental problem 15 YEARS AGO. Elgin resurrected the thread out of a desire to hear how things went.

...and the OP hasn't posted to a TH thread since 2008.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serves me right for getting up too early. I didn’t read the date and just thought I might having something to contribute. Oh well. I will leave my remarks but I do have a bunch of pictures of my process and might create an article on my site about how I worked through the process. Some of the pictures are kind of crazy. I didn’t do any anesthesia and removing the old crown required a slide hammer sort of thing and was pretty aggressive.

Jeff
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
I didn’t do any anesthesia and removing the old crown required a slide hammer sort of thing and was pretty aggressive.

When I had a top front tooth extracted I was expecting lots of yanking and tugging but there was none. I was floored when my periodontist said "it's out".
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Jeff_Purtle wrote:
I didn’t do any anesthesia and removing the old crown required a slide hammer sort of thing and was pretty aggressive.

When I had a top front tooth extracted I was expecting lots of yanking and tugging but there was none. I was floored when my periodontist said "it's out".

Unfortunately, removing a permanent crown does involve lots of "yanking and tugging"; the forces applied have to break the crown free of its adhesive without damaging or loosening the underlying tooth.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
cheiden wrote:
Jeff_Purtle wrote:
I didn’t do any anesthesia and removing the old crown required a slide hammer sort of thing and was pretty aggressive.

When I had a top front tooth extracted I was expecting lots of yanking and tugging but there was none. I was floored when my periodontist said "it's out".

Unfortunately, removing a permanent crown does involve lots of "yanking and tugging"; the forces applied have to break the crown free of its adhesive without damaging or loosening the underlying tooth.

To clarify, in my case it wasn't a crown but an entire tooth that had become badly infected. My sense is that they cut it out so I never felt any pulling.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
To clarify, in my case it wasn't a crown but an entire tooth that had become badly infected. My sense is that they cut it out so I never felt any pulling.

I understood that in your case you were talking about extraction of your entire tooth. I just wasn't sure why you made your original comment about the ease of your tooth extraction in response to Jeff's account of the aggressive nature of a crown removal; my reply was meant to emphasize that the two procedures are "apples and oranges".
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