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Proteus
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kalijah:
Still curious: If artificial lips were employed in order to create a constant baseline input and thereby remove the many variables that would present using human chops (even just one human), could we then map the exact timbral characteristics of any mouthpiece, any horn, and then any mp/horn combination?
Might help to minimize mouthpiece and horn safaris...
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Proteus wrote: | | ... could we then map the exact timbral characteristics of any mouthpiece, any horn, and then any mp/horn combination? ... |
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That would add information, but how helpful it would be is questionable. The additional variables start with the player / horn interface - hands and lips.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
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Mike Sailors
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Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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Location: Austin/New York City
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Not brain dead, but what does this all mean? How does it apply to me as a trumpet player beyond putting the horn to my lips and blowing? |
If you're blowing, you're doing it wrong. I don't say that in jest, and realizing that fact saved my career and has helped literally every single one of my students further their playing.
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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If by "blowing " you are referring to active exhalation effort. (Vs passive), it is used by all players at some point unless you are playing 100 percent from passive pressure. Which is not possible for performance.
But there is great value in practicing with passive air pressure as dominantly as possible. |
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Mike Sailors
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I’m not an engineer so I can’t speak to what you’re saying, even though I’m sure you’re right.
But I meant what I said and if you want to pick that apart that’s cool.
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kalijah
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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So what exactly did you mean by "blowing"?
Ans why should one NOT do that? |
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Mike Sailors
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Forced exhalation. Blowing. Like trying to extinguish the candles on a cake with your mouth. Perhaps there's a scientific definition of blowing I'm not aware of.
You shouldn't try to play like that because it makes you sound like doodoo, makes your articulation un-musical and prevents you from playing anything loud, soft, low or high reliably. If one wants to play from say E at the bottom of the staff to F at the top of the staff consistently, then forcefully blowing is the way to go.
Am I saying that when we play there is zero air leaving our mouths and entering the horn? Not at all. But, if your playing philosophy revolves around blowing air, you're most likely going to struggle terribly.
I say all this knowing that you probably have a scientific explanation as to why I'm wrong and you're right.
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Sailors wrote: | | ... Am I saying that when we play there is zero air leaving our mouths and entering the horn? Not at all. But, if your playing philosophy revolves around blowing air, you're most likely going to struggle terribly. ... |
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My interpretation of this is that 'blowing' should not be the goal - moving air through the lips and into the mouthpiece should be the result of establishing the proper embouchure position and internal air pressure to provide air flow and lip vibration / pulsation.
Good playing comes from DOING things in an effective and repeatable manner. Developing the skill comes from learning what to do, and practicing so the 'doing' becomes habitual.
The 'learning' can occur and be taught in different ways, but the result needs to be 'doing'.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9003
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Sailors wrote: | | Forced exhalation. Blowing. Like trying to extinguish the candles on a cake with your mouth. Perhaps there's a scientific definition of blowing I'm not aware of. |
| JayKosta wrote: | | My interpretation of this is that 'blowing' should not be the goal - moving air through the lips and into the mouthpiece should be the result of establishing the proper embouchure position and internal air pressure to provide air flow and lip vibration / pulsation. |
LOL. 
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I say all this knowing that you probably have a scientific explanation as to why I'm wrong and you're right. |
There is likely a scientific explanation as to why you are right, if you are defining "blowing" in a particular way. Which I suspect is the case. |
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but I suspect that Mike means that you shouldn't blow the air into the trumpet any more than you blow the air when you speak or sing. (As in, you likely don't consciously do it at all.) Similarly, I think kalijah has posted that he believes the natural elasticity of the lungs is enough to generate the requisite air pressure for lower volume, middle or lower range notes. These two don't seem that different to me. |
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Mike Sailors
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Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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Location: Austin/New York City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve A wrote: | | I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but I suspect that Mike means that you shouldn't blow the air into the trumpet any more than you blow the air when you speak or sing. (As in, you likely don't consciously do it at all.) Similarly, I think kalijah has posted that he believes the natural elasticity of the lungs is enough to generate the requisite air pressure for lower volume, middle or lower range notes. These two don't seem that different to me. |
Bingo.
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Mike means that you shouldn't blow the air into the trumpet any more than you blow the air when you speak or sing. |
If you are referring to air flow, it generally takes even less air flow to play trumpet than to sing or even speak.
Attempting to manufacture some large "lots of air" flow will truly not be required and could lead to bad results if taken literally. I truly dislike the "lots of air" (flow) advice.
| Quote: | | Similarly, I think kalijah has posted that he believes the natural elasticity of the lungs is enough to generate the requisite air pressure for lower volume, middle or lower range notes. These two don't seem that different to me. |
They are different in the sense that one is in regard to air flow and the later is in regard to air pressure. |
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