Arban's Vs. Saint-Jacome

trjeam · Posted: Tue May 28, 2002 5:39 pm Post subject:

I’m sure that everyone has heard of the Arban’s but I rarely hear talk about the
Sait-Jacome book wich is also a great method book.

I was just wondering wich one do you guys prefer? And why is it that the Arban’s is so
much popular then Saint-Jacome. I personally like the Saint-Jacome better because it starts off at a very easy level and works up to harder stuff. and the 18 preludes are just perfect for me. Things aren’t as hard I guess but I can still find something challenging that I know that I can do. The Saint-Jacome also seems more organized to me.

But if you guys had to choose one book which one would you pick? Arban or Jacome?
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kjb · Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 12:57 am Post subject:

Arban is great for the basic stuff - tonguing, scales. Saint-Jacome has some excellent duets and etudes. So, for the basics I like Arban. For more specific playing, I like Saint-Jacome.

Cheers,

kjb

EBjazz · Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 3:33 am Post subject:

Nice Q George, and one that is not asked enough.
Of course Arban is the Trumpet Players Bible as we all say. But what of poor St. Jacome?
As a student of Claude, I studied every page of Arban and St. Jacome. As well as Gatti and some of the French studies.
Anyway, I really like the St. Jacomes interval studies( study on the fifth degree..etc.), his characteristic studies are great. St. Jacomes Grand Artistic Studies are terrific and his duets can not be equaled.
If what you are looking for is a "go ahead" to learn St. Jacomes, then you got it from me!
St. Jacomes is cool because of the models on each exercise and the fact that you can start them in different keys.
I consider St. Jacomes to be the next step after Arban. Most of the first volumne is a waste of time for students of the trumpet.
The second volumne of St. Jacome is wonderful and filled with fine exercises that when played in the proper manner, not only enhance the musical development of the student, but also the technical.
For example, p157. This is a great exercise. Single tongue it. K tongue. Double tongue. Do ALL the models! All of them!
Do it every day for one week.
Then get back to me.
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_PhilPicc · Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 5:05 am Post subject:

I like most of us started on Arbans. When I went to college my instructor had me get Saint-Jacome's part II.

I agree with the other posts as to the wonderful adaptability of the exercises. And as also stated the duets are great. At every lesson we played duets. What a great learning experience playing duets with a player who with and as a soloist performed with the great Leonard Smith.

They both compliment each other and together make a dynamite combination.

I think I will quit typing and go straight to page 157.

Regards,
Phil
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_Don Herman · Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 6:22 am Post subject:

I don't own St. Jacome, though have used it with my teacher (in our lessons). If I had to choose one, it'd be Arbans because it is a bit more general (from what I've seen) and perhaps a bit broader on the basics. I tend to agree, again based upon limited exposure, that it seems to take the next step beyond Arbans. For me, I have plenty of "regular" music to practice, plus many other methods and etude books, so just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I plan to get St. Jacome, but another reason I haven't yet is the answer to your other question -- why is Arban's so popular? It's everywhere! Most every store sells it, and I haven't found one that has St. Jacome in stock. One store (out of a half-dozen or so) carried it, but only kept one copy in stock and had sold it "a while back" and hadn't gotten around to ordering another. It was also quite a bit more expensive than Arbans. I also imagine most teachers were brought up on Arbans and prefer to stay with a known book rather than try something new.

My 1/2 cent - Don
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EBjazz · Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 10:32 pm Post subject:

You are correct Don. Arban is well organized and easy to use. Of course all students of the trumpet must have one.
St. J is the red-haired stepchild. It's not well organized and has almost no instructional text.
Claude was planning to edit the book after he worked on the Arban. Unfortunatly he had a heart attack and there were issues with Carl Fischer. I firmly suggest that you start working out of St. J. It is one of the primary texts in the trumpet repertoire and all trumpet players should be well familiar with it. Part 2 is where you should start. There is no instruction or method to the organization of the book. But like I said above, work on page 157. This is the beginning of a group of interval and melodic exercises that will take you many months to complete.
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Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

That WAS a damn good question George!

Do you know I've never even seen the St.J!

How does it compare in size weight etc...price?...where from?

Many thanks!
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mafields627 · Posted: Thu May 30, 2002 7:36 am Post subject:

The Carl Fischer website lists the price as $26.95 and also states that Claude Gordon edited it before he died.

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

As far as I am concerned everyone should have both of them.
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_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:54 pm Post subject:

A local store is going out of business and has music 25% off. Lo and behold, there sat one, new Saint-Jacome Grand Method for Trumpet or Cornet, Revised by Claude Gordon! Copyright 2002 by Carl Fischer. It looks really good, but my initial impression hasn't changed my previous assessment, and that of others -- it's a step past Arban's, or perhaps an advanced companion. Little text/explanation, and as it's several books combined the organization is...well... interesting at timnes.

List $26.95 U.S. -- much cheaper than I recalled (less or comparable to the latest Arban's I think). My brief first look sez it's well worth having, in addition to (not in place of) Arban's.

FWIW - Don

p.s. The preface by Claude opens with an interesting (shall we say) line: "It is a tragedy that there are those self-styled revisers that will take a great book, written by someone else, revise it and in so doing, change the wording to fit their own ideas thus destroying the meaning intended by the original author."

Also, "The Saint-Jacome method is a book of examples and models on every exercise." In other words (just to revise Claude

), it's a starting point with examples upon which to build and extend on your own.

Finally (gotta' get past the first few pages someday), St. Jacome says as the first line of Instructions and Directions: "The cornet is without contradiction one of the easiest instruments to play as regards the fingering, and one of the most difficult in regard to the embouchure."
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trumpetart · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject:

trumpetart · Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:44 am Post subject:

trumpetart · Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:44 am Post subject:

davyar · Regular Member Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 85

I got my St. J on ebay last year. I love it. I agree that it is not well organized (jumps around abit), but it sure enlightened me on major and minor keys. Also, on alot of exercises it says you can play the same exercise in a different key just by changing some notes to sharps and other notes to naturals. (hard to explain --- St J users know what I'm trying to say!)

I wish I had used this book years ago.

Dave
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trumpetart · Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:

Bronxgroove · Regular Member Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 67

timothyquinlan · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:57 pm Post subject:

David Bertie's new organized version of the Saint-Jacome is definitely worth a look for everyone here. Fixing up the organization makes it much more usable, and gives Arban a real run for his money.

Find "The Inspiration of Saint-Jacome" by David Bertie here.
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kehaulani · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:12 pm Post subject:

I'll die before I've mastered Arban. My main teacher was a student of Schilke and he showed me different ways of using some of the Arban exercises that are not specified in the book.

But I like to use St. Jacome and Merri Franquin for variety.
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Smokin Joe · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:22 am Post subject:

I went to the Tonight Show in 1975. I spoke with Doc Severinsen after the show, he asked me what book I was using to practice from, I told him Arban's, he told me he used the St Jacome book.