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kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Effortless" is not possible. That is, there is no such thing as literally "relaxed" performance. (Relaxed here defined as a complete repose of muscular action)

It appears that "effort" is somehow wrong or bad in the popular language and attitudes. ("Black or white" attitudes among players.)

There is nothing wrong with effort as long as the effort pays some dividend and can be sustained without excessive fatigue or any injury.

But yes, reducing effort. even to very low levels, is a GOOD thing. Especially if one can sustain tonal output and quality, or even increase those.

A barometer (correlation) of effort in embouchure action for MOST players is the tongue movement. That is, the tongue "arch" action. The pervading myth among players is that the tongue arch "speeds-up" the air and air "speed" = pitch. For those who truly understand the physics of air this is patently absurd and easily shown to be so.

Neither does the tongue arch "compress" the air, (increase the pressure or energy of the air). There are all kinds of technical nonsense to attempt to credit the tongue or oral shape with directly controlling pitch. One can easily dismiss such nonsense as literally accurate.

The tongue does move forward when tensioning the embouchure for controlling ascending pitch for MOST players depending on how much "roll-out" action they employ to tension the embouchure.

So therefore, low-effort embouchure action, for low and soft tones requires almost imperceptible tongue arch action.

Most players are placed on a trajectory of high baseline effort from the start as beginners and developing players by mouthpiece buzzing (or worse) and then held in that habit by insistent and excessive arching of the tongue. This high effort approach is further habitually reinforced by:

excessively large mouthpieces (cups, throat, rim diameter)

"free-blowing" instruments (less efficient)

"flexibility" warm-ups (excessive harmonic slurs)

insistence of "long tones" and other "warm-up" exercises that are simply too long of duration WHILE too high in pitch.

I have developed an approach which includes VERY low-effort practice that encourages increasing results INSIDE of the low-effort envelope. This improves efficiency by two modes. By reducing the effort required to play WHILE increasing the results. All while improving fine control AND strength, which in turn increases endurance when performing. It also does not require some justification by endless, ridiculous pontification of pseudoscientific "air-speed" nonsense.
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Bert
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only recommend contacting Kalijah (Darryl) via a PM. I did so because I was running into trouble time after time and needed to try out a different approach. From the things he says in a lot of posts on TH, I thought he would be somebody with a slightly different and fresh view on things, and this proved to be correct.
His very (very!) low effort exercises were completely new to me, take a lot of patience and some time, but they really make a difference if you are overplaying and overblowing. They are hard to explain in text, but actually very simple in concept and worked wonders for my playing and understanding. Endlessly pounding out flexibility after callisthenic after etude after whatever exercise only made me a frustrated and insecure player. After doing the low effort exercises for some time and backing off from lots of high effort exercises, my playing has become more consistent and efficient again.

Again, really worth a little PM!

Good luck and patience
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
1. "Effortless" is not possible. That is, there is no such thing as literally "relaxed" performance. (Relaxed here defined as a complete repose of muscular action)

...

2. But yes, reducing effort. even to very low levels, is a GOOD thing. Especially if one can sustain tonal output and quality, or even increase those.


1. I knew saying effortless would spawn the "effortless" is not possible speech. I am very aware of the technicalities of what effortlessness means. I was going for the subjective meaning of effortless. You obviously still have to play the trumpet. However, your precision in language should be extended to what my previous post pointed out: low and soft won't achieve what you are trying to achieve for the OP if those are really difficult tasks for them.

2. Luckily, my post helped you more clearly define what you meant.
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
low and soft won't achieve what you are trying to achieve for the OP if those are really difficult tasks for them.


That is why I FIRST established the premise of reduced effort and invited the OP to contact me for more instructions.

The goal should be reduced effort EVEN if no actual tone is produced at first. One must develop tone WITHIN a very reduced effort. And yes, low, soft and short tones come first.
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
That is why I FIRST established the premise of reduced effort and invited the OP to contact me for more instructions.

The goal should be reduced effort EVEN if no actual tone is produced at first. One must develop tone WITHIN a very reduced effort. And yes, low, soft and short tones come first.


We are in agreement. Just trying to help the OP navigate the text.
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We are in agreement. Just trying to help the OP navigate the text.


Is OP still with us?
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stuartissimo
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 978
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:
kalijah wrote:
1. "Effortless" is not possible.

I knew saying effortless would spawn the "effortless" is not possible speech. I am very aware of the technicalities of what effortlessness means. I was going for the subjective meaning of effortless.

Effortless does not neccesarily mean “zero effort”, it can also mean “requiring little effort” {1}. You used the term correctly.
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By "effortless" I mean, as close to zero effort as can be achieved. True conscious muscular repose to the greatest degree one can achieve without being unconscious, anesthetized, asleep, or dead.

I stand by what I wrote. It is not possible to play without effort. Even a slight one. The lowest effort notes to play are soft pedal tones.
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1825
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Am I playing too much Reply with quote

LyonLover wrote:
Ugh, I am getting frustrated again. I seem to have constant endurance issues after i've been playing for a while. I'd say I play 3-4 hours a day on average, sometimes more i. ...


Are you playing too much? For a music major - no. For a non-major - YES.

Please talk to your academic advisor on the wisdom of a college sophomore spending 4 hours a day on a hobby.

You should be pursuing a double major or at least a minor and taking any prereqs, arranging a study abroad semester, lining up an internship, learning to play golf (no - really). Your junior year is crunch time when all of your major classes will hit you.

My recommendation is for you to complete your performance obligations this semester. Next semester scale back to just playing in the university "B" band - play 2nd or 3rd and reduce your practice to only what is needed to perform the music well.

Junior and Senior year - stop playing...

Nothing bad will happen.

When you are established in your first job, find a private teacher to guide you in a re-boot of your playing. ( Don't forget to click on the "Come Back Player" forum here at TH.) Locate a community band and pay your dues for a year or two playing 3rd chair. You will then have 50 or 60 years of playing ahead of you.
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2662
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking to an adviser seems sensible as the OP is in a serious place where their work / life balance is seriously skewed. As in college = work, life = a hobby.

That needs addressing.

The reason they are finding things difficult is they are working on a chronically tired set of face, brain and I suspect, inspiration. It sounds very much like playing for the sake of it.

Advice is needed from someone in the know.
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LyonLover
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Aug 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Am I playing too much Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
LyonLover wrote:
Ugh, I am getting frustrated again. I seem to have constant endurance issues after i've been playing for a while. I'd say I play 3-4 hours a day on average, sometimes more i. ...


Are you playing too much? For a music major - no. For a non-major - YES.

Please talk to your academic advisor on the wisdom of a college sophomore spending 4 hours a day on a hobby.

You should be pursuing a double major or at least a minor and taking any prereqs, arranging a study abroad semester, lining up an internship, learning to play golf (no - really). Your junior year is crunch time when all of your major classes will hit you.

My recommendation is for you to complete your performance obligations this semester. Next semester scale back to just playing in the university "B" band - play 2nd or 3rd and reduce your practice to only what is needed to perform the music well.

Junior and Senior year - stop playing...

Nothing bad will happen.

When you are established in your first job, find a private teacher to guide you in a re-boot of your playing. ( Don't forget to click on the "Come Back Player" forum here at TH.) Locate a community band and pay your dues for a year or two playing 3rd chair. You will then have 50 or 60 years of playing ahead of you.


No, you're wrong.


Last edited by LyonLover on Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rod Haney
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Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only relate my experience but it was as simple as making a move from upper lip placement to lower lip placement. It took a few months to get details but I could immediately get the feeling that upper lip was responding to air rather than being worked by my face. Range over extended time was the result. To me it was as simple as freeing up the lip to respond. Finding that set took awhile tho. This may be off the track of advice you seek but may also be a overlooked solution especially if you are a “smile” player
Rod
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Wardyager
New Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2022
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
Are you a performance major or professional? I had a sibling start a trumpet performance degree and brass players definitely max out after some number of hours (3, 4, 5). From what I've heard there are several ways to stretch that:
1. Rest as much as you play
2. Sing before you play
3. Practice fingerings while watching/listening to recordings
4. Double on another instrument (piano, etc.)
5. Break up practices throughout the day

Another option is to look at equipment: smaller mouthpiece, smaller bore, etc.

What have you tried so far?


All great advice.
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