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Jon Arnold
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2025
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 Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Why choose Monette? |
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[quote="ALETRUMPET"]What are the big differences with other mouthpieces? Did Monette change the sound of Jazz? Yet many professionals still use the classic Bach 3C ... and make great jazz. Many musicians who have switched to Monette are going back to their old mouthpieces, how come? All this to "ask": are Monette mouthpieces really this revolution, are they really so superior to others?[/quote]
Great question. Monettes are different by design and I have owned several in the past. I am primarily a jazzer so my interest in them was to try something new. Some love some them and some don't. I am also under the opinion you don't have to spend a fortune to sound good (ie Bach 3c). Many of my all time favorite jazz players played on Bach mouthpieces. Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw and many others. In today's world, trumpeters have more choices than ever before which is good and bad. Trust me. I have tried a lot of brands and am back on a Bach 3C. (The new CNC ones are fantastic.) The equipment is a means to help the player find their individual voice and the sound they are going for in their head. We focus too much on equipment sometimes in the trumpet world. The player is also a factor. I am playing a 3C and transcribing solos. My time and energy is better spent there. |
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sd4f
Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 102
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Why choose Monette? |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | RussellDDixon wrote: | | 1. Everyone is an INDIVIDUAL. |
I'm not. |
Actually, the lines after that are relevant to a lot of discussions on mouthpieces:
| Quote: | BRIAN: You've all got to work it out for yourselves!
FOLLOWERS: Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!
BRIAN: Exactly!
FOLLOWERS: Tell us more! |
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ALETRUMPET
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Eliminato
Last edited by ALETRUMPET on Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1909
Location: WI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
How about naming more of those pro trumpet players who tried Monette equipment and then switched back? As you said in your original post:
| ALETRUMPET wrote: | | Many musicians who have switched to Monette are going back to their old mouthpieces, how come? |
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel. How Dave heard another, wholly new sound between and in combination of the the extremes of these horns, while also having the design knowhow to build an instrument that not only helps the player achieve such a wide pallet of colors but to do so with effortless intonation and drastically improved range is what Monette is all about.
Also, not for nothing, but Freddie was a Monette mouthpiece client for the last several years of his life.
Happy practicing,
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Jon Arnold
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2025
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| You have a point there. The flumpet sounds pretty cool. |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 978
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:19 am Post subject: |
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The real answer is 'because it works for that person', which is the same answer for every other piece of musical gear out there.
To anyone who feels the need to justify their choice of equipment: don't, they're not you so they know less about you than you do yourself.
To anyone who feels the need to criticize someone else's choice of equipment: don't, you're not them, so you know less about them than they do themselves.
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
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Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
I had the same conclusion listening to recordings during that time. But then, I just thought of another possible reason. Maybe there was a change in his playing at that time of life and it wasn't the horn.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Why choose Monette? |
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| Jon Arnold wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | | What are the big differences with other mouthpieces? Did Monette change the sound of Jazz? Yet many professionals still use the classic Bach 3C ... and make great jazz. Many musicians who have switched to Monette are going back to their old mouthpieces, how come? All this to "ask": are Monette mouthpieces really this revolution, are they really so superior to others? |
Great question. Monettes are different by design and I have owned several in the past. I am primarily a jazzer so my interest in them was to try something new. Some love some them and some don't. I am also under the opinion you don't have to spend a fortune to sound good (ie Bach 3c). Many of my all time favorite jazz players played on Bach mouthpieces. Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw and many others. In today's world, trumpeters have more choices than ever before which is good and bad. Trust me. I have tried a lot of brands and am back on a Bach 3C. (The new CNC ones are fantastic.) The equipment is a means to help the player find their individual voice and the sound they are going for in their head. We focus too much on equipment sometimes in the trumpet world. The player is also a factor. I am playing a 3C and transcribing solos. My time and energy is better spent there. |
Yes, I too find the new Bach 3Cs exceptional. I am returning to the Bach 3C, disappointed with the various Monette, GR, ACB etc. The new Bach 3C has the right sound for me, a great jazz sound. My opinion for what it's worth |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
Not to quibble but when I listen to Soul Eyes I don't hear anything resembling insecurity. I absolutely adore that CD. To be fair it's the only Art Farmer recording I have.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Daniel Barenboim
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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Good question. Why on earth would anyone choose to play those things?
šš¼
DB |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
Not to quibble but when I listen to Soul Eyes I don't hear anything resembling insecurity. I absolutely adore that CD. To be fair it's the only Art Farmer recording I have. |
Iām not 100% sure because Iām on a long road trip through Spain so I canāt check my record collection but I suppose I based what I said on the Art Farmer quartet, The complete recordings. If I remember well these were quite late so maybe his age had something to do with it as another poster suggested. |
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djpearlman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 461
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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'It's the best of all worlds for me. It has a certain darkness to it that I like. If you play in the high register it sounds more like a trumpet. In the lower register, it sounds more like a flugelhorn. Conversely, it has a certain degree of projection that the flugel lacks and a certain darkness that the trumpet doesn't have. It is intended to bring out the best of both instruments.' - Art Farmer interview about the flumpet....
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Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
- Andalusia Cornet
- Carolbrass Pocket Trumpet
- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
Having heard Art live dozens and dozens of times at the Village Vanguard and elsewhere between 1994 and his passingā¦I can say that Iām honestly not 100% sure what youāre talking about. If youāre suggesting that occasionally heād miss a note or play out of tune, congrats - he was human. Operator error. Blaming that on the horn!? Itās a missed note, or as you originally said, player āinsecurityā - Art Farmer found his voice in this instrument after years of -insecurely- switching back-and-forth between trumpet and flugel.
Speaking as someone who owned a FLUMPET and played it extensively as a soloist from 2009-2015 (when I sold it to āupgradeā to my Cornette), itās a fantastic instrument with no flaws: colorful, dark, rich, powerful, resonant, and consistent from low (and VERY low) to high and crazy high. Dave told me a story of Art calling him up and playing passages above double c when he first got the horn - in disbelief! The altissimo register was not one he normally hung out in. Having toured in a free jazz trio of FLUMPET, Guitar, and āCello, I can say that this horn allowed me to play all over the horn as my colleagues easily moved all over their instruments, while also playing lower and higher than both instrumentsā¦and without amplification!
Some real nice contributions to a discussion that was perhaps flawed from the get-go. Dan P - thanks so much for sharing that Art FLUMPET quote. All others, and especially the haters - please go practice and avoid contributing to the next discussion on this brandā¦especially if youāve never played the gear or heard in person what it can offer like-minded players.
Sincerely,
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2028
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me that players (should) choose a mouthpiece or any other gear because:
1. It helps them play the music they need/want to play;
2. It helps them get the sound they want while doing so; and
3. They can afford it.
There are so many variables involved: Your embouchure and approach to playing, mouthpiece (rim, cup, backbore, throat, mass), trumpet (gap, leadipie, flare, bore, slide shape, bell weight and thickness, bead, etc.). That results in a lot of guesswork, and potential frustration and costs.
When you consider the cost of a mouthpiece "safari," particularly for costly mouthpieces like Monette and GR, a visit for a fitting makes a LOT of sense. |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
Having heard Art live dozens and dozens of times at the Village Vanguard and elsewhere between 1994 and his passingā¦I can say that Iām honestly not 100% sure what youāre talking about. If youāre suggesting that occasionally heād miss a note or play out of tune, congrats - he was human. Operator error. Blaming that on the horn!? Itās a missed note, or as you originally said, player āinsecurityā - Art Farmer found his voice in this instrument after years of -insecurely- switching back-and-forth between trumpet and flugel.
Speaking as someone who owned a FLUMPET and played it extensively as a soloist from 2009-2015 (when I sold it to āupgradeā to my Cornette), itās a fantastic instrument with no flaws: colorful, dark, rich, powerful, resonant, and consistent from low (and VERY low) to high and crazy high. Dave told me a story of Art calling him up and playing passages above double c when he first got the horn - in disbelief! The altissimo register was not one he normally hung out in. Having toured in a free jazz trio of FLUMPET, Guitar, and āCello, I can say that this horn allowed me to play all over the horn as my colleagues easily moved all over their instruments, while also playing lower and higher than both instrumentsā¦and without amplification!
Some real nice contributions to a discussion that was perhaps flawed from the get-go. Dan P - thanks so much for sharing that Art FLUMPET quote. All others, and especially the haters - please go practice and avoid contributing to the next discussion on this brandā¦especially if youāve never played the gear or heard in person what it can offer like-minded players.
Sincerely,
-DB |
Quite aggressive. Saw your Cornetto clip at Daveās place. Beautiful tone, my congratulations. Unfortunately also the eternal boring OMG small talk. Tough boys among each other.
BTW, itās all about music. In the end experience, degrees, certificates donāt count, sound does.
So FYI:
https://youtu.be/adCRmRaRbMc[/youtube] |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
Having heard Art live dozens and dozens of times at the Village Vanguard and elsewhere between 1994 and his passingā¦I can say that Iām honestly not 100% sure what youāre talking about. If youāre suggesting that occasionally heād miss a note or play out of tune, congrats - he was human. Operator error. Blaming that on the horn!? Itās a missed note, or as you originally said, player āinsecurityā - Art Farmer found his voice in this instrument after years of -insecurely- switching back-and-forth between trumpet and flugel.
Speaking as someone who owned a FLUMPET and played it extensively as a soloist from 2009-2015 (when I sold it to āupgradeā to my Cornette), itās a fantastic instrument with no flaws: colorful, dark, rich, powerful, resonant, and consistent from low (and VERY low) to high and crazy high. Dave told me a story of Art calling him up and playing passages above double c when he first got the horn - in disbelief! The altissimo register was not one he normally hung out in. Having toured in a free jazz trio of FLUMPET, Guitar, and āCello, I can say that this horn allowed me to play all over the horn as my colleagues easily moved all over their instruments, while also playing lower and higher than both instrumentsā¦and without amplification!
Some real nice contributions to a discussion that was perhaps flawed from the get-go. Dan P - thanks so much for sharing that Art FLUMPET quote. All others, and especially the haters - please go practice and avoid contributing to the next discussion on this brandā¦especially if youāve never played the gear or heard in person what it can offer like-minded players.
Sincerely,
-DB |
Quite aggressive. Saw your Cornetto clip at Daveās place. Beautiful tone, my congratulations. Unfortunately also the eternal boring OMG small talk. Tough boys among each other.
BTW, itās all about music. In the end experience, degrees, certificates donāt count, sound does.
So FYI:
https://youtu.be/adCRmRaRbMc[/youtube]
As far as I know this is on the flumpet.
Secondly I can hear that the flumpet gave AF more freedom but I have problems with his sound, his sound manipulation and his intonation in his ballad playing.
BTW I have always been a fan of AFās trumpet playing, not so much the flĆ¼gel. |
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Danbassin
Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="delano"][quote="Danbassin"][quote="delano"][quote="Danbassin"] | ALETRUMPET wrote: |
Quite aggressive. Saw your Cornetto clip at Daveās place. Beautiful tone, my congratulations. Unfortunately also the eternal boring OMG small talk. Tough boys among each other.
BTW, itās all about music. In the end experience, degrees, certificates donāt count, sound does.
So FYI:
https://youtu.be/adCRmRaRbMc[/youtube]
As far as I know this is on the flumpet.
Secondly I can hear that the flumpet gave AF more freedom but I have problems with his sound, his sound manipulation and his intonation in his ballad playing.
BTW I have always been a fan of AFās trumpet playing, not so much the flĆ¼gel. |
Wow - I didn't previously know of this Lush Life recording!
However, the sound in this recording is of Art on his Flugelhorn. After some rather painstaking internet research, this recording was made in 1975, and originally released in Japan in an album, "To Duke with Love."
So, just to bring it back to the Monette thing: this recording which was brought up to say how Art Farmer sounded "insecure" on the FLUMPET is a recording made on an old flugehorn he was all too happy to never look back upon after receiving his FLUMPET. And, the recording was made eight years before the first Monette instrument was built/about fifteen years before the FLUMPET came into existence.
Finally, just to address being called "aggressive" over my suggestion that folks who have never played Monette gear, who never care to learn more about Monette gear, and who frequently choose to be the first, last, and loudest commentators on said subject, every single time it comes up should let those with firsthand experience lead these discussions...So be it: if it weren't for this gear, and the design innovations it represents, I wouldn't still be a trumpeter.
Happy practicing - including practicing compassion,
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Danbassin wrote: | | ALETRUMPET wrote: | Jon Arnold....Chet, Lee Morgan, Freddie, Woody Shaw e molti altri.....
And "probably" they would never have played a Monette. |
I think that Woody Shaw and also probably Lee Morgan would have been fascinated by what Art Farmer achieved on the FLUMPET after a career switching back-and-forth between trumpet and Flugel.
-DB |
Both WS and LM need much more projection.
Art Farmer could sound very insecure on the Flumpet especially in ballads. So if a player like Art Farmer had problems, that horn must be very difficult to play. |
_________________
www.mikesailors.com |
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