View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: Bach 6 Mouthpiece |
|
|
Anyone know the throat and back bore of this mouthpiece ?
I just bought one from the 60’s I believe (Corp …No dot )
Also the rim ? I’ve heard it’s on the flatter side which I’ve heard is good for thinner chops. I’ve got very thin chops. (Not very much red at all)
Recently I’ve been on a Patrick 1.5 CR
I’m thinking I’ve been on mouthpieces too big for my chops all these years.
I read the Vachianno take on mouthpieces and the importance of matching appropriate mouthpieces size to individual chop sizes etc… |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 250 Location: Phoenix AZ
|
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bach 6 Mouthpiece |
|
|
ricealumni95 wrote: | Anyone know the throat and back bore of this mouthpiece ?
I just bought one from the 60’s I believe (Corp …No dot )
Also the rim ? I’ve heard it’s on the flatter side which I’ve heard is good for thinner chops. I’ve got very thin chops. (Not very much red at all)
Recently I’ve been on a Patrick 1.5 CR
I’m thinking I’ve been on mouthpieces too big for my chops all these years.
I read the Vachianno take on mouthpieces and the importance of matching appropriate mouthpieces size to individual chop sizes etc… |
It depends. Trumpet or cornet? 6, 6B, 6BM, 6C?
All answered by the Bach Mouthpiece Manual, published on a lot of sites. Here's one: https://www.johnkealmusic.com/Images/document/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf
Yes, it is pretty flat. A matter of taste. It seems more folks discuss the Bach 5 rim, which is less so. I have both, like both. Not sure which I like best. _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
6 (as in a straight 6 trumpet mouthpiece ) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1886
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
According to the catalogue the back bore is a 10. The throat is either a 27 or 28. Some of those old 6 models were from Mt Vernon, but not stamped. I have a 6C corp that has a 28 hole. If you like it don't modify it. Get a newer 6 and modify that one instead. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1825 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Could I suggest that you compare the scans of a 1 1/2C and a 6 at
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/
The 6 is capable of a lot of sound with what some would call "core".
If the rim is too flat for you and you would like a little more "zing" in the sound, consider the 6B or 6BM (26 throat 24 backbore) or the Schilke 9 (26 throat and the Schilke C backbore). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1906 Location: WI
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I believe the Bach "straight" 6 (no letter) trumpet mouthpiece was Vincent Bach's personal favorite. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
The image of a Patrick 1.5C is at -
https://patrickmouthpieces.com/trumpet-mouthpieces/#!/1-5C/p/11504052/category=2605557
It looks to me like the cup on the 1.5C might be a little less deep than on a Bach 6 - but perhaps the internal volume of the cups are similar. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks everyone. I’ll be curious to see how it feels.
I’m able to control the sound the way I want it much better on a smaller rim and a deeper cup. I’ve experimented with the 5B recently, but after a while it’s cutting into my chops. As I mentioned I’m thin lipped (almost no red) I’ve always had great range and endurance on bigger mouthpieces but now I’m all about getting my sound more compact and more focused. I studied at Rice with Wilt and Ghitalla and now 25 years later 😦
I’m still at it ! Crazy how time flies! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 250 Location: Phoenix AZ
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm certainly no expert, but I know what I like. I've got pretty thin lips as well. The straight 6 seems to be the best fit on my Connstellation 28A, although it seems to change from day to day.
I do like deeper than average cups and fairly flat rims. So I have a Curry 6TC and a 6TF that I like to use on my trumpet. They feel a lot like my Bach 6C, but give me the depth that I like.
I have a Curry 6FLD for my flugelhorn; I like it, but also like my Stork 5FL a bit more for most applications.
I play a Curry 5BBC on my cornet, but only because until recently he didn't offer a 6BBC. I see your point about the Bach-style 5 rim, but I've gotten used to it.
If the Bach 6 rim size and shape is good for you, a budget safari should start with www.currympc.com/Trumpet-Standard-Series-.html _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you so much. I’m hopeful that I’m moving in the right direction , at least for now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1906 Location: WI
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Shifty wrote: | I have a Curry 6TC and a 6TF that I like to use on my trumpet. They feel a lot like my Bach 6C, but give me the depth that I like. |
Unlike Bach, where the same size mouthpiece will have different rim shapes for different depths, Curry has standardized on a single rim shape for each numbered size regardless of depth. For the size 6, Curry uses a version of the Bach Mount Vernon 6C rim shape (which agrees with Shifty's observation).
If you like the Bach 6 "no letter", you may not like the Curry Standard Series size 6 mouthpieces because, since Curry consistently uses a 6C rim, it will be rounder than the Bach "no letter" 6 rim. The Bach 6B and 6C rims get progressively rounder than the "no letter" 6. I just wanted to point that out if you explore Curry options.
Mark Curry would probably be willing to make any of his size 6 Standard Series mouthpieces with a 6 "no letter" rim, but they would be custom orders with a somewhat higher price. I've ordered Mark's designs with a custom size and rim shape and have always been extremely pleased with the result. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MrOlds Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 722 Location: California
|
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think I read somewhere that Roger Voisin played a Bach 6.
The few times I payed one I thought the rim profile was flat-ish kind of like a 2C or maybe a 1X?
If you like the depth of the Bach 6 but flat rims aren’t your thing you could look at a Stork B cup in whatever diameter fits you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I’ve been playing on the Bach Corp 6 (No dot) and it’s great. Fits my chops really well. Is it worth looking for a Mt Vernon if I run across one or should I stick with the Corp? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1886
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you find one go for it. There is a 6 corp on ebay if interested.
I have a couple of Mt. Vernon 6 corp cornet mouthpieces. They are very different than the corp. Very deep with a wide, flat rim with a pronounced bite. I have no idea about the Mt.Vernon 6 trumpet mpc. Keep in mind that the 6 family is one of Bach's oldest designs. They changed throughout the years, but I say this because of the mouthpieces that I have picked up. I can only talk about the mpcs that I have. I would say that the corp models (Elkhart) have the sharpest rims. I have a 6C corp that has a 28 hole. Very sharp rim, which gives it a more metallic sound. I have a NY 6C that is very deep. Deeper than a 6B. One thing that stayed the same is the diameter. The width seems consistent, but the rims and cups changed. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cplt Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 29 Location: NYC
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:32 pm Post subject: Curry 6's |
|
|
Just wanted to chime in about the Curry 6's. I just got a 6BC a couple of weeks ago, and it's been a great match for my C trumpet. Its rim is rounder and more comfortable than the Bach 6, 6C, and 6BM I've tried. Sound and playability are excellent -- even got a compliment from the (community) orchestra conductor a couple of weeks ago :)
Interestingly, my Monette Tradition Plus 6 seems to have a *very* similar rim — I have no trouble going back and forth (I like the Monette on my Bb). The Curry 6BC plays a bit tighter and brighter than the Monette, but the feel is comparable.
Just a thought if you end up liking the 6's — although the Tradition Plus line is about 3x what a new Curry costs, so it's definitely a bigger investment. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've been experimenting with an older Bach 6 and I like that I can play consequentially louder than my usual setup, which I really need sometimes. Only problem is that it plays darker and I need something projects better. With my limited research the throat and backbore aren't unique but the cup is more V-shaped than the 1.5C cup I normally use. Makes me wonder if a shallower V-cup would be a better option for me. Any other suggestions for a piece that's easier to play louder and project better on? _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ricealumni95 Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2021 Posts: 79
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The 6 definitely brings darker undertones in my sound. I can play fortissimo and my sound stays together. I’m not getting much zing but that’s what I’m trying to avoid. If I could describe my sound on the 6, it’s mellow but not like I sound on my flugel mpiece…more trumpet like …kind of a buttery large symphonic sound. My range is fine. I’m still able to play up to double F easily as I was on my Bach 1 1/2.
The rim on the 6 is very comfortable and it pairs well with my thin lips I think ..provides more surface area to sit on. This mouthpiece does not feel
small at all. It’s a bathtub of a cup and just what I’ve been searching for to help round out my sound and give it more expansion. The 6BM felt really small and stuffy, so I stuck with the 6. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 250 Location: Phoenix AZ
|
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Halflip wrote: | Unlike Bach, where the same size mouthpiece will have different rim shapes for different depths, Curry has standardized on a single rim shape for each numbered size regardless of depth. For the size 6, Curry uses a version of the Bach Mount Vernon 6C rim shape (which agrees with Shifty's observation). |
I have a Bach 6 and 6C as well as a Curry 6TFD, 6TC and 6TF. I can't find those combinations on any of the comparators but, visually, it looks to me like Curry standardized on the Bach straight 6 instead of the 6C. All my Curry pieces seem very flat, ala Bach 6.
I wonder if Mark would be willing to chime in? _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9344 Location: Heart of Dixie
|
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Bach 6 cornet mouthpiece is very nice, and comes stock with the 24 backbore. I bought a Bach 6 trumpet mouthpiece and didn’t like it at all - my sound on it was pretty tubby. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1825 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dale Proctor wrote: | The Bach 6 cornet mouthpiece is very nice, and comes stock with the 24 backbore. I bought a Bach 6 trumpet mouthpiece and didn’t like it at all - my sound on it was pretty tubby. |
Perhaps because the trumpet mouthpiece has the #10 backbore. I played the 6 at one time with the 24 backbore and larger throat on C trumpet. Worked pretty well. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|