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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:53 am Post subject: Bach 3C |
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| What do you think of the new / modern CNC Bach 3C? In terms of comfort and sound. |
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2036
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Comfortable and versatile, leaning a bit toward the bright end of the spectrum. Wouldn't be my choice for playing second trumpet in an orchestra, for example, but it is a nice transitional piece, covering a lot of ground between legit and lead. |
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jadickson
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:49 am Post subject: |
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There is still so much variation from one to the next. Yes they are made on CNC machines, but then they are buffed and polished many times before and after plating by both humans and robots. They are not consistent. My local music store let me try 8 new ones, and they were all noticeably different in sound and feel. This was last year.
That does not make them bad. It just means if you don’t like one, maybe try another one.
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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stuartissimo
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 985
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Have read mostly positive comments about them. Sadly, Bach’s most popular mouthpieces (3C, 7C, 1/2C) don’t work well for me (not just Bach though, similar mouthpieces from other manufacturers too). There’s something about them that hinders my embouchure and tone. The new fabrication method doesn’t change that.
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | | My local music store let me try 8 new ones, and they were all noticeably different in sound and feel. This was last year. |
I did the same thing a few years back, when I was still playing on a Bach 3C. I tried three Bach 3C mouthpieces from a local store, and they all felt very much the same. So while I respect Justin's reply, we all have our own experiences.
And to the OP, I think Dayton's reply sums up the Bach 3C.
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I played for years on a mid to early 90's Bach 3C.
The new ones do not feel quite the same in terms of the rim.
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2025
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been playing on the 3C CNC version and think it is a nice well balanced mouthpiece. Great for the money. |
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MrOlds
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 724
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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None of the shops in my major metropolitan area even have 8 3Cs. Much less would they let me open and play them all to discover minor variations. Post-COVID that just doesn’t happen here.
Sounds like a Monty Python sketch. https://youtu.be/ue7wM0QC5LE
Are there differences one to another? Maybe. Do they matter? Only if the audience can hear the difference. Nobody in front of the bell cares how it feels to us. |
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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you all. In general it seems well balanced, much improved tone, rich in harmonics without being metallic, clean attacks, excellent dynamic range. Maybe it's just my impression |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | There is still so much variation from one to the next. Yes they are made on CNC machines, but then they are buffed and polished many times before and after plating by both humans and robots. They are not consistent. My local music store let me try 8 new ones, and they were all noticeably different in sound and feel. This was last year.
That does not make them bad. It just means if you don’t like one, maybe try another one. |
I'm calling bs on this. The tolerances and measurement are within one onethousand of an inch and checked between each stage of the process to maintain those tolerances. If they fail those measurements any time they are rejected.
It's just people believing the old and perpetuating the inconsistencies myths. When you go into a situation believing something whether it is true or not it is called placebo.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| chef8489 wrote: | | jadickson wrote: | There is still so much variation from one to the next. Yes they are made on CNC machines, but then they are buffed and polished many times before and after plating by both humans and robots. They are not consistent. My local music store let me try 8 new ones, and they were all noticeably different in sound and feel. This was last year.
That does not make them bad. It just means if you don’t like one, maybe try another one. |
I'm calling bs on this. The tolerances and measurement are within one onethousand of an inch and checked between each stage of the process to maintain those tolerances. If they fail those measurements any time they are rejected.
It's just people believing the old and perpetuating the inconsistencies myths. When you go into a situation believing something whether it is true or not it is called placebo. |
I'll second the bs..
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JayKosta
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:12 am Post subject: |
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calling 'BS' is offensive - just because you have not experienced something does not mean that nobody else has, or can.
it might be that most people wouldn't detect any difference, but some people might.
When shopping for shoes or gloves, I often try different items with the same size & model - usually they feel slightly different ...
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | calling 'BS' is offensive - just because you have not experienced something does not mean that nobody else has, or can.
it might be that most people wouldn't detect any difference, but some people might.
When shopping for shoes or gloves, I often try different items with the same size & model - usually they feel slightly different ... |
When qc is strict enough they dispose of mouthpieces that are out of spech when one onethousand of an inch during each check at each stage of the process, no. That's why I brought up the placebo effect and why in the medical field and other fields like audio, they do ouble blind testing. When someone believes there is a variation in quality going in, they will perceive that there is whether there is or not. I deal with this in great extent in the audio science community and recording engineering community. We test equipment and use dbx testing as well. I'd wager if you took a proper set of calipers and measured all the mouthpieces, they would be in spec and not have the so called inconsistencies that were perceived.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Given a choice, I'll always try several of the same model mouthpiece or horn and take the one I like best. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be critical of that.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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bike&ed
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | Given a choice, I'll always try several of the same model mouthpiece or horn and take the one I like best. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be critical of that. |
This. I’ve got multiple examples of new Yamaha artist model mouthpieces, which seem very likely to have the most precise and replicable tolerances, and are probably measurably identical in every imaginable way.
They still play (marginally) differently. It may not show up on a spectrometer, and I might fail a double-blind test, but it doesn’t matter. Right here, right now, I feel like there’s a difference, and that is all that matters. |
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jadickson
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I am not "believing old myths." I am describing my personal experience with a box of Bach 3C mouthpieces that I tried, just this summer of 2022.
It hurt to be invalidated and ridiculed like that. |
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I’m curious as to what Bach 3C design features these newer ones are designed to mimic, or are they a blend of ‘old’ and ‘new’? |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9024
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted. I was thinking only of inner-diameter cup opening but not considering bore, backbore, and throat.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:49 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Dale Proctor
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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I played an older Bach 3C for many years, but was never really wild about my tone on it. I switched to a Curry 3C. 5 or 6 years ago and have never looked back. The Curry is slightly wider and deeper than my old Bach 3C and with a much more comfortable rim. It’s a great all-around mouthpiece and I like the sound.
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | I played an older Bach 3C for many years, but was never really wild about my tone on it. I switched to a Curry 3C. 5 or 6 years ago and have never looked back. The Curry is slightly wider and deeper than my old Bach 3C and with a much more comfortable rim. It’s a great all-around mouthpiece and I like the sound. |
Curry makes great pieces. I use his cornet pieces and had a chance to try out Rich Willie's trumpet piece a couple times during some of our sessions. I almost went that route instead of the Lotus pieces.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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