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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | Wow - I didn't previously know of this Lush Life recording!
However, the sound in this recording is of Art on his Flugelhorn. After some rather painstaking internet research, this recording was made in 1975, and originally released in Japan in an album, "To Duke with Love." |
I'm seeing that AppleMusic has the "New York Jazz Sessions" album. Unfortunately, iTunes doesn't have it nor does it have "To Duke with Love".
FWIW I really like his sound and his playing here and would buy the recording if I could. His sound is decidedly different than when on his Flumpet but I'm okay with that.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: |
Wow - I didn't previously know of this Lush Life recording!
However, the sound in this recording is of Art on his Flugelhorn. After some rather painstaking internet research, this recording was made in 1975, and originally released in Japan in an album, "To Duke with Love."
So, just to bring it back to the Monette thing: this recording which was brought up to say how Art Farmer sounded "insecure" on the FLUMPET is a recording made on an old flugehorn he was all too happy to never look back upon after receiving his FLUMPET. And, the recording was made eight years before the first Monette instrument was built/about fifteen years before the FLUMPET came into existence.
Finally, just to address being called "aggressive" over my suggestion that folks who have never played Monette gear, who never care to learn more about Monette gear, and who frequently choose to be the first, last, and loudest commentators on said subject, every single time it comes up should let those with firsthand experience lead these discussions...So be it: if it weren't for this gear, and the design innovations it represents, I wouldn't still be a trumpeter.
Happy practicing - including practicing compassion,
-DB |
Yeah, that's indeed not convincing from my side. The problem is that I had to guess. Like I said before, I'm on a road trip through Spain and I don't have my record collection to check things. So I depend here solely on youtube and its informaton + my old iPhone SE. BTW it's not only Lush life, all the slow parts are like that on that recording.
For Cheiden: I found it as parts of The Complete Recordings. And like I said before, I always liked the trumpet playing of Art Farmer but disliked the slow tracks on the flügelhorn. Maybe I was too fast to extrapolate that to the flumpet.
To clear things up: I am not a Monette hater nor am I the first, last and loudest commentater on this subject. It is true that I am often surprised by the sect-like behavior of the Monette players culminating in very funny Monette 'werbung' clips.
Further let's realize that this thread is in the first place about the Monette mouthpieces and not about the flumpet.
I searched more clips on youtube, found a recording Silk Road which I don't understand (is it electronic?) and a nice clip of Art with Ray Brown and some others playing Stardust on the flumpet!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC0T-pap098&ab_channel=ZycopolisTV
I have to admit that it sounds much, much, much better than the flügel clips.
So my apologies.
Now the second part of your post. If you allow only people with long experience on Monette horns to discuss this subject you automatically get only positive comments (otherwise they should not have that long experience). If I try a Monette and I don't like it for some reason I will not obtain the, in your opinion, necessary experience so you will not allow me to tell why I don't like that horn. Sounds a bit weird.
Back to Monette. I see that the horns are crafted beautifully, I hear different sounds, there must certainly be innovation and vision but there is something in the sound that I don't like (not only with AF). In the Art Farmer Stardust clip I miss resonance (am I oldfashioned?) and I experience the sound of the flumpet as too dominant, it keeps on to be the same and the same.
For these observations you don't need a ten years experience on this horn, does it sound good or less good.
But you are right: Art plays this horn quite well.
When I will be back home I'm gonna play my Art Farmer records, I am not sure but that will be Stablemates, The Complete Recordings and maybe some more. But I'm afraid my favorite will be What is there to say. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | For Cheiden: I found it as parts of The Complete Recordings. And like I said before, I always liked the trumpet playing of Art Farmer but disliked the slow tracks on the flügelhorn. Maybe I was too fast to extrapolate that to the flumpet. |
Thanks for the clarification.
The only minor critique I have of Lush Life is that it sounds like a younger artist who didn't yet have the range of expression that he would later in life.
In the past, I too have been critical of the sound some Monette players get. Since then I've encountered many players who completely transcend the equipment and play and sound just fine.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | For Cheiden: I found it as parts of The Complete Recordings. |
I found the 3-CD recording on Amazon for $21.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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RussellDDixon
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Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Location: Mason, OH
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7010
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I have had a chance to try two or three Monette mouthpieces over the last ten years or so. I liked them well enough. I think their combination of a bit of mass matched to a larger throat works for a sector of players like me who want to move some air with a feeling of freedom. In other words, those players who want to feel movement when they play.
I've recently been able to sample three different Monette trumpets that are owned by a couple of players in the band, too.
Personally, I haven't found anything in Dave's horns or mouthpieces that would make me want to spend the money for them. I respect them, though. I'm glad that our trumpet world has Monette in it.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Jaw04
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | I have had a chance to try two or three Monette mouthpieces over the last ten years or so. I liked them well enough. I think their combination of a bit of mass matched to a larger throat works for a sector of players like me who want to move some air with a feeling of freedom. In other words, those players who want to feel movement when they play.
I've recently been able to sample three different Monette trumpets that are owned by a couple of players in the band, too.
Personally, I haven't found anything in Dave's horns or mouthpieces that would make me want to spend the money for them. I respect them, though. I'm glad that our trumpet world has Monette in it. |
Well, we all play differently. It took me a while to learn how to play large throats correctly (for me). And actually, when I'm doing everything right, I do not feel like am moving a lot of air at all. When I'm in the upper register and playing soft on my Monette piece, I feel like I'm just holding a particular shape with my mouth and barely letting any air out. I have an easier time doing this on large throat than a more conventional mouthpiece, which I feel like I have to push a little more. |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7010
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaw04 wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | I have had a chance to try two or three Monette mouthpieces over the last ten years or so. I liked them well enough. I think their combination of a bit of mass matched to a larger throat works for a sector of players like me who want to move some air with a feeling of freedom. In other words, those players who want to feel movement when they play.
I've recently been able to sample three different Monette trumpets that are owned by a couple of players in the band, too.
Personally, I haven't found anything in Dave's horns or mouthpieces that would make me want to spend the money for them. I respect them, though. I'm glad that our trumpet world has Monette in it. |
Well, we all play differently. It took me a while to learn how to play large throats correctly (for me). And actually, when I'm doing everything right, I do not feel like am moving a lot of air at all. When I'm in the upper register and playing soft on my Monette piece, I feel like I'm just holding a particular shape with my mouth and barely letting any air out. I have an easier time doing this on large throat than a more conventional mouthpiece, which I feel like I have to push a little more. |
You remind me of my first encounter with my Kanstul 1025. It comes with a small Morse mouthpiece that made me feel like I had to hold my breath in so much it was like I wasn't allowed to put air through the horn. Later, I bought a French taper tuning bit and a large throat mouthpiece. It was so much easier and natural to play... with even less air, but not the bound up feeling.
I totally agree with you about large throat mouthpieces allowing so little air to create such a tremendous sound while feeling natural doing it. Yes, Monette mouthpieces do that sort of thing. I, myself, have never tried a Monette that gave me the playability and sound I was looking for, but I'm not saying they aren't out there. I simply cannot afford to spend that amount of money trying them out and I haven't needed to, because I have had access to the entire Flip Oakes line of mouthpieces which give me similar results and are designed to work with the horns I play.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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