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Copper trumpet / cornet



 
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oldlipguitarplayer
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Joined: 21 Oct 2022
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:58 pm    Post subject: Copper trumpet / cornet Reply with quote

I happened upon a trumpet, although it looks more like a cornet on reverb. The listing: "Conn Elkhart, IN Coprion Copper Trumpet with Case". I never heard of a copper trumpet. How do they sound? Any big difference? Anyone? Copper? Brass? Difference? Thanks
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Copper trumpet / cornet Reply with quote

oldlipguitarplayer wrote:
... How do they sound? Any big difference? Anyone? Copper? Brass? Difference? ...
I've been playing horns with copper bells (and lead pipes) for years. Copper is denser compared to brass. The effect is a mellower (more dense) sound, which is why copper bells are often preferred over brass on flugelhorns and cornets (especially flugelhorns).
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Wild Thing Bb - Copper
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Schilke C trumpet has a lightweight copper bell.
My Schilke Bb has a yellow brass bell.

It's much easier for be to color my sound on the copper bell horn.
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject: Copper bell Reply with quote

It sounds like the ad you refer to is for a Conn Coprion model which Conn made a long model of that closely resembles a trumpet. Good horns and they seem to be a good value on the used market as well.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago, I played a copper Callichio trumpet at The Horn Guys in LA. It was a lovely horn with a rich, warm sound! I recall it was slightly heavier than I expected.

My Kanstul 1525 flugelhorn has a copper bell. In addition to getting attention for its looks, I think it sounds great. One thing though: it dents very easily. Things you usually take for granted, like placing it in a case or setting it down on a stand, need to be done with more care.
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Matt Finley
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riojazz wrote:
Years ago, I played a copper Callichio trumpet at The Horn Guys in LA. It was a lovely horn with a rich, warm sound! I recall it was slightly heavier than I expected.

My Kanstul 1525 flugelhorn has a copper bell. In addition to getting attention for its looks, I think it sounds great. One thing though: it dents very easily. Things you usually take for granted, like placing it in a case or setting it down on a stand, need to be done with more care.


I also played that very Calicchio, Matt! It was lovely. Such a rare thing.

Your 1525 might be an early build. I understand they got less dent prone after a bit. My Wild Thing flugelhorn isn't much different compared to the brass version I owned, in terms of fragility. Oh, how do you like the way your 1525 plays with the French taper mouthpiece? much better than the stock Small Morse, IMO.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it’s this one https://reverb.com/item/39553151-conn-elkhart-in-coprion-copper-trumpet-with-case , it’s a Conn 12A cornet with a Coprion bell. Coprion was Conn’s method of forming a seamless copper bell by plating copper over a mandrel to a thickness that would serve as a bell. Those are really nice-playing cornets with a beautiful sound.
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't like the leadpipe.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Don't like the leadpipe.

Yes, looks like it was badly bent or broken at some time and repaired with a sleeve.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Don't like the leadpipe.

+1

It looks like that ferrule on the leadpipe right before the first valve is a repair. It likely needs a replacement leadpipe (I'm not sure how easy it would be to get one for a Conn 12A).
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:


Your 1525 ... Oh, how do you like the way your 1525 plays with the French taper mouthpiece? much better than the stock Small Morse, IMO.
It is indeed better. My strobe tuner proved it is closer to the 'correct' pitch up and down with the French (non)taper. Doing that test is hard because you have to just let the note flow without unconscious correction.

Charles Hargett got me one when he was still at Kanstul. On his advice, I bought a spare because apparently the French taper lead pipe is thinner, but I've had no trouble with mine for many years now. Thanks again for your advice! And sorry for the hijack of the thread.
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Matt Finley
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electro-formed copper (like the Coprion bell) has a smaller grain structure than rolled sheet copper, which means it's harder. I owned a trumpet with an electro-formed bell that was trimmed to final diameter without a bead, like a Conn Vocabell. I currently own a cornet with the same sort of bell. My personal observation is that both horns handle being put on a stand with no problems.

The trumpet was my all-round player for years and worked fine in every setting I found myself in, including big band lead. The cornet is dark and diffuse. I don't think you can predict how an instrument will sound based solely on the bell material.
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