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orly61 New Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2022 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:51 am Post subject: Vintage Horn Specs |
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Hello everyone,
The trumpet I used to play in high school 45 years ago was a Conn "Director" model also known as "Shooting Stars". I have been trying to find out what was the bore size of that horn but have not found the information. I believe it was a medium bore but do not know the specific size (0.450", 0.453" or other). I have read that they made horns as small as 0.438" bore. As a recent come back player using a medium/large bore (0.460") horn, I am experiencing the need to blow more air through the horn than I remember back then with my Conn. I understand that this lack of air support feeling may be due to my age (61) and the over four decades without playing but I think the bore size could also have something to do with it.
If anyone knows the answer or can point me to a source that may have the answer, please let me know. All of your comments will be appreciated. Thank you! _________________ Orlando Rio
Amateur Comeback Player
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure it would be 0.438" - this site should have a definite answer: https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnTrumpet.html
Honestly though, from a practical playing perspective, I see this as a blind alley. Bore size alone says very little about the playing characteristics of an instrument. Your current horn might be one that most players would perceive as having rather less 'resistance' than your old Conn, but the feeling you've described is ultimately going to relate to how you're playing at the moment. There's a whole world of possibilities for developing your playing from here though
Mike |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1906 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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It depends. The Conn Loyalist site states that it covers Conn instruments manufactured during the "C.G. Conn/Elkhart, Indiana" era. The "What do the trumpets look like" page shows three Directors (a 14B, 15B, and 18B from 1956, 1964, and 1955 respectively). None appear to have the "Shooting Stars" designation. There is a 77B Connquest (a step-up model) from 1972, however. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Halflip wrote: |
It depends. The Conn Loyalist site states that it covers Conn instruments manufactured during the "C.G. Conn/Elkhart, Indiana" era. The "What do the trumpets look like" page shows three Directors (a 14B, 15B, and 18B from 1956, 1964, and 1955 respectively). None appear to have the "Shooting Stars" designation. There is a 77B Connquest (a step-up model) from 1972, however. |
I thought 'shooting stars' was an engraving used on some student/intermediate Conns, either later Elkhart or post-Elkhart horns that were recognisably the same design (or both). If I'm wrong and it's from later instruments that had little to do with 'real' Conns (e.g. the ones that seemed to be made at least in part by Yamaha) then the Loyalist site will be no help finding out about the horn and I personally have no idea what it's bore would be. Apologies if I'm just sowing confusion here!
Mike |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1906 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Prestage wrote: | I thought 'shooting stars' was an engraving used on some student/intermediate Conns, either later Elkhart or post-Elkhart horns that were recognisably the same design (or both). |
This could be. I was just trying to point out that things get a bit murky around 1969 when C.G. Conn Ltd. went bankrupt and was sold to the Crowell-Collier MacMillan Company, and that the Conn Loyalist website does not purport to authoritatively cover the post C.G. Conn era. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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orly61 New Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2022 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:37 pm Post subject: Vintage Horn Specs |
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Thanks everyone for you comments and very interesting information. The horn I had was purchased at a pawn shop in 1974 and it was in very good condition so I suspect that it was manufactured between the mid "60s to 1970. It seemed to be a student model with the adjustable third slide finger ring but it was a well built good quality horn with good compression and fast acting valves. _________________ Orlando Rio
Amateur Comeback Player
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Beyond16 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2020 Posts: 220 Location: Texas Gulf Coast
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vintage Horn Specs |
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I had a Conn 15B Shooting Stars Director trumpet, serial number L87780. It had .438 bore. That's even narrower than some pea-shooter trumpets. It played great though. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9344 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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This is probably the trumpet you owned.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn15B1964image.html
Different trumpets play differently, and the mouthpiece also makes a difference. To me, the Conn 4 that came with the Director trumpets felt “tight”, and if you’re playing on something different, it may have a cup with more volume, a larger throat, and/or more open backbore than the mouthpiece you used to play. Of course, long layoffs and age can make a difference, too… _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1825 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just the "Shooting Stars" on the bell will not give the model. The Japanese model Director trumpets had that logo on the bell. Look through the Conn Loyalist and search for Conn Director trumpets on eBay to see if any of them look familar.
The Director trumpets of the 60's were .438 bore but the Japanese Directors in the early 70s were 1 1/2 bore - .458 or .459 and the valve block looked like a Yamaha. I believe most of the Directors made after the Japanese trumpets were also the 1 1/2 bore. |
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orly61 New Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2022 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | This is probably the trumpet you owned.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn15B1964image.html
Different trumpets play differently, and the mouthpiece also makes a difference. To me, the Conn 4 that came with the Director trumpets felt “tight”, and if you’re playing on something different, it may have a cup with more volume, a larger throat, and/or more open backbore than the mouthpiece you used to play. Of course, long layoffs and age can make a difference, too… |
Thank you so much for the info. This looks like the trumpet I learned on and used to play except mine was silver plated. I played on a Bach 7C which was pretty much middle of the road regarding cup, throat and backbore specs but still my recollection was of a more resistive blow with the Conn than with my current horn. _________________ Orlando Rio
Amateur Comeback Player
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CarolBrass CTR-9395 custom copper plated
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orly61 New Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2022 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again everyone! I appreciate all the wonderful and interesting information you have provided. I am now pretty sure that the trumpet I used to play was a Conn Director 15B, medium bore (0.438"). Hopefully the medium bore trumpet I recently ordered, along with lots of practice, can help me out a bit with my current playing deficiencies. _________________ Orlando Rio
Amateur Comeback Player
B&S Challenger I
CarolBrass CTR-9395 custom copper plated
Allora Flugel Horn |
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