• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Most Nimble Horn


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a horn, what works for one player may not meet the demands of another player. In my case the answer would be my Olds Recording.
George
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jengstrom
Veteran Member


Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 427
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Kanstul 1600 that was interesting with respect to agility. If you were the least bit tense, it played like a brick. But if you relaxed enough, it was extremely agile. It was like driving a sports car. In that respect, it was a great teaching tool.

I loved that horn. It was a blast to play. However, it was only for jazz or big band. It just didn’t cut it in an orchestra setting. When I got my 72*, I found it would do everything the 1600 could do (with a little less agility), but with a better orchestral sound. And it still lights up in a big band setting.

The 1600 was more fun to play if I relaxed enough, but the 72* is no slouch in that regard.

Footnote unrelated to the original post: I’ve read many times that you will know the right horn when you first play it. Forever, I didn’t think I was good enough a player to make subtle distinctions between quality horns. When I got serious about replacing my old 43*, I was surprised (and happy) to find that I did indeed notice these things. The old saying is true: the right horn will find you. The 1600 was a LOT of fun to play, and sometimes I miss it. But I knew the first time I played the 72* that it was a keeper.

John
_________________
Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can ever get your hands on a great Chicago Benge, you will know exactly what a responsive and agile horn is.
The sound they can generate has a ring to it that basically few other horns have. They also fit in any genre you can think of.
I have two friends that have restored, gold plated Chicagos. One is from 1939, the other from around 1947.
They are just magnificent horns made by a man who was a great player and completely understood what a horn should do. And he was not an engineer, either.

R. Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mr oakmount
Veteran Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2022
Posts: 147
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani asked

"Then why don't we all play a Schilke B6?
Seems like a bit of a smart aleck question, but I mean it. What do other horns have that the Schilke doesn't have?"

Well, I for one am not often looking for "nimble" in a trumpet.
I prefer stable, clear (not over-bright) and enough resistance so I can "lean in" when the going gets tough. That's why I usually end up on the Bachish side of the Bach-Schilke-divide

The closest to "nimble" I have is an amazing Adams A5. It blows free and wide open (almost to a fault) and responds to everything you want to do with it. If you find the valves to your liking is another question: They somehow feel "big", but I am not bothered by this. Try before you buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chrisf3000
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Yamaha LA 8335II is one of the most nimble, responsive horns I have ever played. As soon as I saw your question, I thought of this horn. The first gen was not even close, but this one is fantastic. Plus it's not just bright, there's a fullness to the sound.

My other choices would be a Shires. Not sure which would model would suit you, as all players are different, but whatever magic they put into those horns is impressive. Definitely worth considering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
And he was not an engineer, either.


_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2610
Location: Anacortes, WA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn Reply with quote

tyler.slamkowski wrote:
What, in your opinion, is the most nimble (or agile) horn you have ever played? Nimble defined by the following:

-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation

Secondarily, is it good for all genres, or is more oriented to a particular style (mariachi, classical, jazz, symphonic, etc.)?


Go back and read this again and think of it this way. Rock solid slotting means hitting notes securely in fast runs, even jumping octaves. Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind?
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jcubed901
Regular Member


Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two horns immediately come to mind:
- the Shires Destino III (the Doc Severinsen model)
- a J. Landress custom built trumpet (it was displayed on a wall at his old shop)

Both of these horns felt similarly, and exceptionally, nimble. They were very responsive, agile, and focused throughout the entire range of the horn

In some ways, they both felt like sports cars
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tyler.slamkowski
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2017
Posts: 103
Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
tyler.slamkowski wrote:
What, in your opinion, is the most nimble (or agile) horn you have ever played? Nimble defined by the following:

-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation

Secondarily, is it good for all genres, or is more oriented to a particular style (mariachi, classical, jazz, symphonic, etc.)?


Go back and read this again and think of it this way. Rock solid slotting means hitting notes securely in fast runs, even jumping octaves. Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind?


Thanks! That's close to what I'm asking. An all-around horn that really shines in it's flexibility, valves, and articulation. I play a Shires Model A (B-flat) and Model 4F (C), love the sound I get, but the valves actually don't feel better than my old Yamaha. Slotting is great. But recently, I wonder if there's something out there that fits me a little better (recitals, small group jazz, subbing in the symphony & big bands, eventual DMA with a focus on these things and teaching).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8331
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr oakmount wrote:

Well, I for one am not often looking for "nimble" in a trumpet.
I prefer stable, clear (not over-bright) and enough resistance so I can "lean in" when the going gets tough. That's why I usually end up on the Bachish side of the Bach-Schilke-divide

In my opinion, the divide is more between Bach trumpets and trumpets that hew more closely to the original French Besson style and playability. The latter includes Schilke (who put his own spin on the Besson thing), Benge (who more closely stuck to the Besson thing), as well as actual French Bessons - either made in France or the later Kanstul build ones. There might be others as well - I'm not sure where Calicchio fits in this (maybe by Benge?), nor am I sure about makers like Olds or Martin, for example - but I think grouping Besson, Benge, and Schilke together as having similar leanings in terms of response and sound is more accurate.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mr oakmount
Veteran Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2022
Posts: 147
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs

I was looking for this kind of trumpet: Rock solid and infinitely flexible, easiest response and fantastic projection, a dark rich tone that will easily cut through a loud band, ... see what I mean? What happened is that I kept trying for ways to make my heavy Bach-types more responsive and open while making my Benge-types more solid.

Guess what: At some point I decided to embrace my instruments the way they were and to find ways to use their respective strengths.

PS: My "nimble" votes go to the Adams A5 (if you like the valves) and my Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn. And I wouldn't play Tchaikovsky IV or Star Wars on either
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2020
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, having lived in Germany for almost 20 years now it’s been a while since the magic pig came up Seems like your decision to use the horns for their strengths is exactly what I decided to do. The rotary goes into orchestra and rotary things, generally the more disciplined direction while the Bach goes into the commercial and louder direction. Works just fine. I guess I could do everything with the Bach and a set of mouthpieces but the rotary is so much fun as well!

And I actually did play James Bond and Stevie Wonder stuff on the rotary
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndyDavids
Veteran Member


Joined: 08 Jun 2020
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind?
My Schilke B1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LadFree
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 56
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most nimble horn is the one Allen Vizutti is playing!
Actually, if you want nimble,I would say get out the Clark book
and a metronome and go to work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr oakmount wrote:
In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs

. . . wie gesagt.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Halflip
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1860
Location: WI

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr oakmount wrote:
In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs

"Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" -- what a brand that would make! And judging from the quick search that I just did, there are a number of potential images to choose from for use as an engraving on the bell.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lawler Bb
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 1139
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolBrass Andrea Giuffredi
Bach LT1901B
Bach 43*/25-O
Yamaha 8310Z II
Most Schilkes
Olds Super
Yamaha 738
Yamaha 6320
Benge anything (L.A. and earlier)
_________________
Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
JetJaguar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1504
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that there are so many different answers. I think we all want a horn we can get from note to note on with ease, so perhaps nimbleness is a fundamental of what we all look for in a horn.
_________________
1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece

www.jazzscales.org

The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DickieG64
Veteran Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
Location: Weehawken, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a '47 large bore Chicago Benge that is very easy to play, open in the top range, and just basically can do anything I want it to.

Great horn
_________________
Chicago Benge Large bore 1947
Monette B993
Taylor Flugelhorn
Kanstul -Charlie Davis pic prototype never produced
Conn 80A Cornet

Taylor Flugle Horn
Kanstul-Charlie Davis Prototype Piccolo-never produced
1946 Conn 80A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2610
Location: Anacortes, WA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetJaguar wrote:
Interesting that there are so many different answers. I think we all want a horn we can get from note to note on with ease, so perhaps nimbleness is a fundamental of what we all look for in a horn.


Define nimble?

Quote: quick and light in movement or action; agile.

I have a combination that I tried recently. I combined my Conn 22B with a Curry 7M mouthpiece. Very nimble. But also very difficult to control. Lip trills are a normal part of the trad jazz I play, but this combination made it too easy. Each note slid into the next and I was sliding all over the place. Slippery slots indeed.

So nimble is good. But you also need accuracy. I went back to another combination after that.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group