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180-37 vs 8335 vs Challenger II


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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact I was thinking along the same lines as Dayton. The 907 Proteus is/was the only Getzen trumpet I really liked up to now.

I have never played not even seen a 907 DLX and though I know that there are differences in bell, leadpipe and valve casing, I have no idea how big these differences work out in a different concept compared with the Proteus. Maybe I am naive but I thought the 907 DLX should be an upgraded version of the 907 Proteus. In other words: same concept but better realised.
So I should love to try the DLX but did not have the opportunity.

BTW I am a believer in concepts of horns, what’s the maker trying to achive. How that is achieved through for example used materials can be interesting from an engineering perspective but personally I am more interested in the result. In the end I think a lot of those stuff is in fact fine tuning and its infuence on especially the sound of a horn is less than one tenth of the influence of a different mouthpiece. Of course I don’t mean with this that a substantial difference in quality will go unnoticed.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Brett Getzen will chime in, but these are not small differences.

The 907DLX targets a classic Getzen sound, the Proteus does not. Differences in annealing strategy drastically change the character of a bell even if it is the same taper (unknown in this case). Likewise, while we dont know if the leadpipe mandrel is the same, the filtering effects of a high-copper wall are very different from that of a sterling leadpipe wall.
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Ron Berndt
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Brett Getzen will chime in, but these are not small differences.

The 907DLX targets a classic Getzen sound, the Proteus does not. Differences in annealing strategy drastically change the character of a bell even if it is the same taper (unknown in this case). Likewise, while we dont know if the leadpipe mandrel is the same, the filtering effects of a high-copper wall are very different from that of a sterling leadpipe wall.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that if you liked a 180-37, you'd love a 190-37.
When I played them back-to-back at a NAMM show a few years ago, I much preferred the 190-87.

If you're considering buying a Bach 37 clone, add a Shires AZ (or possibly an AF) to your list. I thought these were incredible horns.

(I also preferred the B&S X-series trumpets I played over any Challenger trumpet I played.)
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I am no way a Getzen connaisseur so I really don’t know what a classic Getzen sound could be.
Second, even if there are substantial differences between these horns that will not say that one of them is more or less suited for the wishes of the OP. I remember an earlier thread here about the DLX horns in which Brett stated they were really a step forwards from the regular Eterna serial. So I think the OP will be pleased with the Proteus and maybe even more with the DLX.
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the posts! I would like to play the Bach 37, Getzen Proteus and the Yamaha 8335. It's a shame no store carries all these horns so I can compare them back to back.

I like the looks of this trumpet, and I think it will play nice like my 5335: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/muziek-en-instrumenten/blaasinstrumenten-trompetten/a1460326460-trompet-yamaha-ytr8335gs-xeno-verzilverd-in-nieuwstaat

But I wonder if it will sound different in comparison with my 5335.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heinz wrote:


I like the looks of this trumpet, and I think it will play nice like my 5335: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/muziek-en-instrumenten/blaasinstrumenten-trompetten/a1460326460-trompet-yamaha-ytr8335gs-xeno-verzilverd-in-nieuwstaat

But I wonder if it will sound different in comparison with my 5335.



This one has a goldbrass bell. I think you'd better try the Vincent Bach 180/37 the same seller has for sale
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will try to play both in the christmas vacation.
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I am not at all convinced of the professional abilities of this seller.
Maybe you better can contact Mark Geelen from MG brass in Wijk bij Duurstede by phone or mail.
At least you will have advice based on real deep knowledge and he makes without doubt the right horn for you at a very fair price (like his UWH, Universal Work Horse).
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, MGtrumpets:

https://www.mgtrumpets.com/

I say this only because of your preference for buying at a pro shop. Then it’s better to distinguish between a professional instrument shop and just a professional seller.
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
Heinz wrote:


I like the looks of this trumpet, and I think it will play nice like my 5335: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/muziek-en-instrumenten/blaasinstrumenten-trompetten/a1460326460-trompet-yamaha-ytr8335gs-xeno-verzilverd-in-nieuwstaat

But I wonder if it will sound different in comparison with my 5335.



This one has a goldbrass bell. I think you'd better try the Vincent Bach 180/37 the same seller has for sale


Now they also have one with a yellow brass bell! Looks very nice.

The MG custom trumpet also looks very nice, but I think it will be a bit too expensive for a amateur like me.
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delano
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heinz wrote:


The MG custom trumpet also looks very nice, but I think it will be a bit too expensive for a amateur like me.


I think you will be surprised if you ask for the price. And it’s so much fun to have a new custom made trumpet, you will never regret. BTW it will be substantial cheaper than a Bach 37 or a Yamha 8000, Mark’s is not a factory but he is a craftsman who charges materials and working hours.
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I tested many trumpets:

YTR8335G: sounded and played the same as my YTR5335G. Warm, but a bit muffled in comparison with more open and bright sounding trumpets. So Yamaha did it right with the 5335.

Geneva: the store handed me two different Geneva trumpets. I found them heavy and quite thight blowing. They sounded mellow and restrained. Not my cup of thea.

XO with reversed leadpipe: didn't check the type, but it looked and feeled like my Yamaha 6310.

180-37: I thought this one would become the clear winner, but no. I liked the very bright sound, but maybe it was a little too bright for my purposes.

Challenger 2 37 bell: nice, but somewhat restrained and not as open in comparison with the Challenger 2 43 bell and the Bach.

Challenger 2 43 bell: I chose this one. It was brighter and more open than the Yamaha's and Challenger 37, but warmer than the Bach. It gave me a good feeling and it was also more than a grand cheaper than the Bach. So now I will become a B&S player! (But I will keep the Yamaha anyway, because it is just a fine horn to have.)


Last edited by Heinz on Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on finding a good fit. Trying the horns is by far the best way to go.

If that Bach 37 was significantly brighter than a KHS XO and a Challenger with a 43 bell, then something was wrong with that Bach. It is good that you passed on that (sounds suspiciously like damaged & repaired).

I'm not a Challenger fan, but we're all different so that should not be taken as meaning anything other than I may be a little odd, but of the options there, I do prefer the 43 bell. Since it felt right to you, I think you will be very happy with the horn.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach was absolutely fine and the brightest of the lot, but only somewhat brighter than the B&S 43. So not significantly. We shall see how I will like the B&S in the long run, but soundwise I liked it the best.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heinz wrote:
Today I tested many trumpets:


Challenger 2 43 bell: I chose this one. It was brighter and more open than the Yamaha's and Challenger 37, but warmer than the Bach. It gave me a good feeling


Nice

I have had a Bach 180-43* so with the light weight bell. It was the best sounding horn I ever played. Unfortunately I could not handle the open feel of the horn; it was like I was putting my mouthpiece straight into a vacuum cleaner
I sold it for good money so no regrets.

Have fun with your B&S, they are well made and If you become real friends you will have a long and healthy relationship
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Heinz
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing the 3143/2 for 2 months now. I use it allround for bigband and harmonie, it just plays better than my YTR5335 and 6310. I really like the B&S.

The 5335 reduced to practise horn, the 6310 is laying around. Maybe I will sell that one.
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