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Trumpetstud
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:00 am    Post subject: Great Range Reply with quote

When someone talks about range (not triple c etc) what is a “good range” that you could be able to play anything in front of you (jazz)
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be an adequate lead trumpet you need a reliable A. That's the space above four ledger lines
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As BILLY said ... for a pro player who needs to 'get it done' and get hired often.

For adult amateur, my guess is that a reliable high C or D would be adequate for most situations to 'play the songs', but perhaps not 'dazzle the crowd'.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you aspire to play lead I'd hazard that a solid D above the staff with the ability to go a bit higher from time to time would suffice for an awful lot.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Unless you aspire to play lead I'd hazard that a solid D above the staff with the ability to go a bit higher from time to time would suffice for an awful lot.


I agree. I have only been called on to even play a high C on the rare occasion. Lots of G's, A's and B's, though.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play first trumpet in our community orchestra and my music goes up to high C in quite a few pieces but not throughout the whole piece. Often, this is more of an „accent“ type thing. Lots (!) of high B, Bb, A, and Ab, though. Seems to be in line with what others have posted before. I can play up to high E, so my Cs are usually pretty safe if warmed up properly and it’s not snowing on a gig.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your highest note is not the same as your working range. There are plenty of people who can play double C's, but very few that have clean articulation and solid time, and even fewer who can solo. If you're interested in playing jazz, a reliable high C is probably sufficient. Playing anything above that is a matter of musical taste rather than necessity. The range up to high C is sometimes called the "cash register", because that's where 95% of music is written, even on lead trumpet charts. If you don't have a G above high C, maybe you can't take the last note of the big band chart up an octave, but that's much less important than playing the ensemble sections in time and in tune.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming that when you say "jazz" you mean big band-type jazz. You'd typically have considerable discretion in a small combo. I looked through 123 first trumpet parts and transcriptions of first parts arranged for professional big bands. Here's how they break down:

Below high C - 3
High C - 7
High C#/Db - 5
High D - 17
High D#/Eb - 18
High E - 35
High F - 15
High F#/Gb - 5
High G - 13
High G#/Ab - 1
High A - 4
Above high A - 0

And, of course, a chart that "only" goes up to E might have lots of Cs and Ds. So it isn't just whether you can play an F or a G, but whether you can do so solidly after playing 20 high Cs, Ds and Ebs....

Edit: I had a chance to look over more charts and transcriptions of first parts, so have updated the list. If I was looking at a part, I omitted any optional 8va. Lots of arrangers and lots of bands, none of them Goodwin or Kubis.


Last edited by Dayton on Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
I'm assuming that when you say "jazz" you mean big band-type jazz. You'd typically have considerable discretion in a small combo. I looked through 76 first trumpet parts arranged for professional big bands. Here's how they break down:

Below high C - 2
High C - 4
High C#/Db - 5
High D - 12
High D#/Eb - 7
High E - 25
High F - 10
High F#/Gb - 2
High G - 7
High G#/Ab - 0
High A - 2
Above high A - 0

And, of course, a chart that "only" goes up to E might have lots of Cs and Ds. So it isn't just whether you can play an F or a G, but whether you can do so solidly after playing 20 high Cs, Ds and Ebs....

To my earlier point, I trust the lead book makes for most of those high notes with the lower parts routinely (though not always) a third lower.

It goes without saying that the expectation will be very different if you're considering arrangements by Nestico and Wolpe versus Goodwin and Kubis.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
="JayKosta"

For adult amateur, my guess is that a reliable high C or D would be adequate for most situations to 'play the songs', but perhaps not 'dazzle the crowd'.


At the end of a two hour 4th of July concert - hot with mosquitoes - still be able play a solid high C (2nd line C above the staff) for about 8 counts.
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before seeing Dayton's post I would have guessed that you can get by with a solid E that you own and can play musically on the last note of a normal concert. But to Billy's point I have run across a whole lot of G's above high C, i see why he is saying A.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G, A like what you see being mentioned here is what people have said for many years.

Also whatever note it is its worth mentioning that
whatever note is at the top of your playable range…

…needs to be played like all of the other notes in your range

In tune
In style
Appropriate dynamic
Articulated correctly
End the note on time
Played musically
Etc.

Noone wants to hear the guy that is struggling

10 cents sharp on the d
15 cents flat on the g

Articulating horribly
Not playing with the right sound for the style etc.

Yeah get the notes but you did say

“Play anything put in front of you”
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cheiden"]
Dayton wrote:
I'm assuming that when you say "jazz" you mean big band-type jazz. You'd typically have considerable discretion in a small combo. I looked through 76 first ….

It goes without saying that the expectation will be very different if you're considering arrangements by Nestico and Wolpe versus Goodwin and Kubis.


Yep I have found the lead parts on Goodwin music are beyond anything I’ve ever heard played prior to hearing them and would be written for very specific players or be clearly labeled as hazardous to even most studio players. I have to believe that some of this is optional and I can’t see some of the songs being played in a set together! I doubt this band could do a 3 hr. gig stringing such heavy charts together but I don’t know if they tour. I’ve never seen a discography so I don’t even know who plays lead-high, Bergeron, Ingram, Dowedsdell or some other godlike player??
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been lucky enough to see the Tom Kubis big band live a good number of times. His lead book is a lot like Goodwin's. And I've seen a number of lead players (including Wayne) nail one crazy high chart after the other all night long. And I've read a fair number of these charts and the high notes written don't really lend themselves to 8vb. They really need a player who can play up to G at least a time or two in a chart. The guy on second needs some high-note facility too. The lower books are usually more manageable.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did we mention that the range limit is contingent upon what you want to use it for? If we did, I apologize. And BTW, there are the terms big-band Jazz and combo/improv. Jazz. They are both Jazz and they are not the same..
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
I've been lucky enough to see the Tom Kubis big band live a good number of times. His lead book is a lot like Goodwin's. And I've seen a number of lead players (including Wayne) nail one crazy high chart after the other all night long. And I've read a fair number of these charts and the high notes written don't really lend themselves to 8vb. They really need a player who can play up to G at least a time or two in a chart. The guy on second needs some high-note facility too. The lower books are usually more manageable.

If anyone's unaware or otherwise interested Tom Kubis has a website listing his enormous list of charts. For most he lists the highest note for the trumpet and for some you can see a sample part and/or hear audio samples. Here's a link to just his big band arrangements. https://www.tomkubis.com/big-band-all

Did I mention that I love the Tom Kubis big band?
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose we're talking about playing in a big band?

A good range in general, for every trumpet player, would be from low F# to High G - regardless of what music you're going to play.
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kgsmith1
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great range is where you can you can hit the notes you need to hit with what Eric Cartman would call "authoriteh".
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mograph
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For amateur/community stage band, and we're talking lead only, your top should be a G (4th line above). I've only seen a G on a pro big band chart, but a fair number of D's and E's just below that. For the kids' charts, the highest I've seen is a C, and they really seem to want to avoid writing those.

As a jazz soloist, it depends on who is setting your ideal sound image for you. For example, I don't recall seeing a Chet transcription above a C. But Dizzy? Ha!

Whatever you play, when you solo, confidence and familiarity is more important than height, IMO. If you decide to take the risk and squeak out something you've never played before, you'll probably sound like a putz. But if you tastefully use a confident, familiar (not-as) high note as an accent to add energy, that's much better. I would suppose that if your confident high note isn't as high as you'd like, then maybe bias most of your solo a little lower, so your not-too-high highest note sounds high by comparison.
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