View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: Lightening/Darkening a horn? |
|
|
There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties?
I'm just using the Benge as the standard but am looking at how changes in tuning slides, tweaking, changing valve caps, etc. would change a horn's properties. Fact of Fancy? Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 615 Location: Here and there
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Lightening/Darkening a horn? |
|
|
kehaulani wrote: | There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties?
I'm just using the Benge as the standard but am looking at how changes in tuning slides, tweaking, changing valve caps, etc. would change a horn's properties. Fact of Fancy? Thanks. |
Depth of mouthpiece cup seems to be the easiest way to lighten or darken a horn in my experience. The same trumpet (or cornet) can sound remarkably different with a commercial mouthpiece than with a deep V / flugel-style mouthpiece. _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2013 Location: Charleston, SC
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with subtropical, and I'm sure it's a common thought; mouthpiece is the cheapest and easiest way to alter tone.
However, and I know your aware, kehaulani, the MK tuning slides offer huge opportunity and while not the cheapest method, having a couple of tuning slides to alternate is phenomenal.
I've got a Bach 18037 that's a nice player, but when I put a radial nickel-silver tuning slide in, I can hear a distinct cutting timber added to the sound.
And with a lovely 1901B that I have (I got it from a great TH guy here! ), the bronze tuning slide with a brace gives it a much fuller, slightly darker, more powerful tone.
As you can tell, I'm really impressed with MK tuning slides and the changes they can make in a horn. And while I use heavy third valve bottom caps, I really can't tell much difference. I hope it makes my upper range more stable, but I've never noticed any tonal changes.
Great topic though; is anything more important that improving the tone and playability of our horns? _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1803 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For a Benge - I don't recommend heavy valve caps or mouthpieces. They kind of destroy the entire purpose of having a Benge.
O rings - maybe single washer in the bottom 3rd valve cap then mouthpiece cup and backbore. A Curry TC is about as far as I would go with a Bach B cup and #7 backbore being a better choice. There should still be a "playfulness" to the sound and feel.
(There always seems to be a trade off between "dark" and feedback. For a while I had a sweet sounding Martin Indiana Medium bore cornet. I liked it until the first night I took it to community band rehersal - I had to play the occasional wrong note just to confirm I was actually playing. Its beautiful smokey Martin sound provided no feedback in section work.) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 649 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lightening/Darkening a horn? |
|
|
kehaulani wrote: | There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties? |
Lighten: put on a Getzen Eterna bell + use a flat mouthpiece
Darken: put on a Bach 72 bell + use a deep mouthpiece
Life can be easy, just do not take it too serious! _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 147 Location: Europe
|
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wasted a lot of time trying to make my Bach more open and my Adams A5 heavier in search of that elusive country called perfection.
Since then, I had a change of mind and now I'm trying to find and use the strengths of each instrument rather than trying to fight its innate character.
Saying that, I do have 2-4 mouthpieces for each trumpet to give them a brighter edge or mellow them a bit.
Good luck with your search and experiments! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2013 Location: Charleston, SC
|
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
mr oakmount wrote: | I wasted a lot of time trying to make my Bach more open and my Adams A5 heavier in search of that elusive country called perfection.
Since then, I had a change of mind and now I'm trying to find and use the strengths of each instrument rather than trying to fight its innate character.
Saying that, I do have 2-4 mouthpieces for each trumpet to give them a brighter edge or mellow them a bit.
Good luck with your search and experiments! |
Well said. Tweaking a horn for a hint of alteration is normal, I imagine. But at some point, if the sound simply isn’t what we want, it’s probably wiser moving to another horn. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks guys. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|