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Lightening/Darkening a horn?



 
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject: Lightening/Darkening a horn? Reply with quote

There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties?

I'm just using the Benge as the standard but am looking at how changes in tuning slides, tweaking, changing valve caps, etc. would change a horn's properties. Fact of Fancy? Thanks.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Lightening/Darkening a horn? Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties?

I'm just using the Benge as the standard but am looking at how changes in tuning slides, tweaking, changing valve caps, etc. would change a horn's properties. Fact of Fancy? Thanks.


Depth of mouthpiece cup seems to be the easiest way to lighten or darken a horn in my experience. The same trumpet (or cornet) can sound remarkably different with a commercial mouthpiece than with a deep V / flugel-style mouthpiece.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with subtropical, and I'm sure it's a common thought; mouthpiece is the cheapest and easiest way to alter tone.

However, and I know your aware, kehaulani, the MK tuning slides offer huge opportunity and while not the cheapest method, having a couple of tuning slides to alternate is phenomenal.

I've got a Bach 18037 that's a nice player, but when I put a radial nickel-silver tuning slide in, I can hear a distinct cutting timber added to the sound.

And with a lovely 1901B that I have (I got it from a great TH guy here! ), the bronze tuning slide with a brace gives it a much fuller, slightly darker, more powerful tone.

As you can tell, I'm really impressed with MK tuning slides and the changes they can make in a horn. And while I use heavy third valve bottom caps, I really can't tell much difference. I hope it makes my upper range more stable, but I've never noticed any tonal changes.

Great topic though; is anything more important that improving the tone and playability of our horns?
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Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a Benge - I don't recommend heavy valve caps or mouthpieces. They kind of destroy the entire purpose of having a Benge.

O rings - maybe single washer in the bottom 3rd valve cap then mouthpiece cup and backbore. A Curry TC is about as far as I would go with a Bach B cup and #7 backbore being a better choice. There should still be a "playfulness" to the sound and feel.

(There always seems to be a trade off between "dark" and feedback. For a while I had a sweet sounding Martin Indiana Medium bore cornet. I liked it until the first night I took it to community band rehersal - I had to play the occasional wrong note just to confirm I was actually playing. Its beautiful smokey Martin sound provided no feedback in section work.)
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Lightening/Darkening a horn? Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
There have been conversations/threads lately about ways to lighten/darken/nimble-up etc horns (particularly Benge, Adams). Using a common Benge 3X as the norm, what would you do to lighten/darken its properties?



Lighten: put on a Getzen Eterna bell + use a flat mouthpiece
Darken: put on a Bach 72 bell + use a deep mouthpiece


Life can be easy, just do not take it too serious!
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mr oakmount
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasted a lot of time trying to make my Bach more open and my Adams A5 heavier in search of that elusive country called perfection.

Since then, I had a change of mind and now I'm trying to find and use the strengths of each instrument rather than trying to fight its innate character.

Saying that, I do have 2-4 mouthpieces for each trumpet to give them a brighter edge or mellow them a bit.

Good luck with your search and experiments!
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr oakmount wrote:
I wasted a lot of time trying to make my Bach more open and my Adams A5 heavier in search of that elusive country called perfection.

Since then, I had a change of mind and now I'm trying to find and use the strengths of each instrument rather than trying to fight its innate character.

Saying that, I do have 2-4 mouthpieces for each trumpet to give them a brighter edge or mellow them a bit.

Good luck with your search and experiments!


Well said. Tweaking a horn for a hint of alteration is normal, I imagine. But at some point, if the sound simply isn’t what we want, it’s probably wiser moving to another horn.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mouthpiece choice has the greatest effect.
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