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CTrumpeter Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:15 pm Post subject: Upper Register Articulation |
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Last edited by CTrumpeter on Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Trying using a little more (or just different) control and adjustment of the rim pressure on your lower lip. No 'embouchure change', only finding if a different distribution of rim pressure (upper / lower) helps. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1772
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to add a little bit of "beginner language" below for people that stumble upon this in the future. I know you're a pro so, long story short, basically do some tongue stops and restarts up there to see if you're changing things when the sound and air is turned "off"
I extrapolated this technique from lesson's with Bob Sullivan and Jim Wilt and their concept of TUHD
1. Ensure you can hold out a note and be able to play it from mp-mf+. Crescendo and decrescendo to check.
2. hold it at a comfortable dynamic (on the softer end of comfortable), then use the tongue to seal the system and stop the sound. Do not "push (like pooping)" when the tongue seals it. You can practice this off the trumpet by blowing, then stopping it with your tongue - notice how you don't force (like pooping) when the tongue stops the air?
3. release the air that you are stopping with the tongue and see how cleanly and quickly the sound begins again. If it doesn't begin cleanly or immediately, then you are changing the position of your lips in the period where the sound stops or you are interrupting the lips with your tongue.
4. Don't focus on the lips, focus on restarting the note cleanly and immediately.
Once you get a hang of it, try changing notes in the "stopped" period. And once you get it, there will be quick improvement in your articulation in general (because I'm sure the problem exists in other parts of your range for the same reason). |
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CTrumpeter Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by CTrumpeter on Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:26 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1772
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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CTrumpeter wrote: | Great response here, and making me facepalm a bit for being forgetful, because I may or may not have studied with the guys you just mentioned
I really like the way you framed it here! The changing notes idea while “stopped” is fantastic. |
Hahaha! Thanks! Yeah man, sometimes I feel like half of trumpet playing is learning what you've already learned. Gotta love it. |
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CTrumpeter Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 Posts: 57
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by CTrumpeter on Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: |
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What you are describing is supporting muscle weakness. Each time you tongue, that burst of air pushes a little extra against the supporting muscles, therefore to conquer that, you must do more tonguing in that range. Sounds simple? Start low with double and triple tonguing and work up and down. I love the stuff at the end of St. Jacome and use that regularly. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Orchtpt95 New Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2019 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:58 am Post subject: |
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The Gekker articulation studies helped me with this same issue. Sort of allowed me to “sneak” into the upper register, carrying the good articulation from the mid register on the way up. |
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Just_Another_Hack Regular Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2023 Posts: 54 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Anchor tonguing is the answer. _________________ Professional lower-split 3rd clarinet player. |
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Mr NiceNotes New Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2016 Posts: 5 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Upper Register Articulation |
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CTrumpeter wrote: | Looking for some advice on upper register articulation - it has always been a weakness for me that I’ve managed to get by with professionally, but now I’m trying to solve it for good. However, I’m a little stumped on how to fix it.
Slurring into the upper register (high concert D) and playing lyrically up there is totally no problem for me; I’m using the “hee” syllable and it works, but articulating up there is god awful. It gets really difficult for me even at the top of the staff, and I haven’t seen much progress in working on articulation daily at my “trouble spot”. I’ve worked on anchor tonguing, or at least the idea that the tip stays down and using the “blade” of the tongue upstairs, and that helps some, but I really want to own it. |
_________________ breath. play. have fun.
Do it with Nice Notes. |
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Mr NiceNotes New Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2016 Posts: 5 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Upper Register Articulation |
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CTrumpeter wrote: | Looking for some advice on upper register articulation - it has always been a weakness for me that I’ve managed to get by with professionally, but now I’m trying to solve it for good. However, I’m a little stumped on how to fix it.
Slurring into the upper register (high concert D) and playing lyrically up there is totally no problem for me; I’m using the “hee” syllable and it works, but articulating up there is god awful. It gets really difficult for me even at the top of the staff, and I haven’t seen much progress in working on articulation daily at my “trouble spot”. I’ve worked on anchor tonguing, or at least the idea that the tip stays down and using the “blade” of the tongue upstairs, and that helps some, but I really want to own it. |
The whole high note history is no mistery. It is all simple to understand, but mostly difficult to apply. I do suggest you take a look on nicenotes.be , you’ll find solution and techniques in the “Embouchure” book. Wish you nice notes! _________________ breath. play. have fun.
Do it with Nice Notes. |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1172 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest practicing triple and double tonguing, legato, in all ranges. That helps to identify and solidify the relationship between the articulation motion in the position required to support the note being played. The extreme eeee (hiss) position is difficult to maintain while articulating, but multiple tonguing helps because it keeps your tongue more in the necessary position. |
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herbievantetering Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2023 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I've had, and am having, a similar problem; never developed the extreme upper register until it jumped up at me.
First, try to articulate softly where you feel the note and the sound is soft (also in the lower register) but actually a note that you can feel. The attack of the note may not be clean immediately or it may be an air attack at first, then, try to repeat;
Focus on small motifs and playing softly throughout the entire range, because playing loud (either high or low) brings the embouchure off balance.
What I discovered is that slurring does not help, you have to compress the embouchure in order to get the note, and it has to be played from scratch and also the upper register expressions are different. You can't just play something an octave higher, there is a sweet spot where the octaves overlap and what the notes COULD be.
Then of course, long tones, scales, flexibilities etc. but slowly.
Some excercises which can help to make a start can be found in the online courses for upper register playing. Note that most of the upper register instructors give you excercises to do each day and these help with building, but you might be able to include 70% music and 30% excercises.
Say once every 2-3 weeks excercises unless you're starting off with a new regiment, which should be practiced every day for 2-4 months.
From my experience I found the excercises only help to start on your journey in order to know where you're going.
It takes time to develop the right sound, and you might have difficulty from time to time, but with the right attitude you'll succeed. |
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