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Early Monette


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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lighter Monette horns can be played with conventional mouthpieces, but you won't get the whole "monette experience"
Some people don't like the way monette mouthpieces play, and use a "normal" mouthpiece with a lighter monette
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jbriddle
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Chicago Monette Reply with quote

I know there have been many posts regarding the Chicago Monette Bb horn and I can tell you that of all of the Strads, Chicago and Burbank Benge and olds Opera horns this horn is really the holy grail for me. I have literally owned at least a thousand horns and totally fell in love with this trumpet within minutes of playing it. If anyone is interested in playing it and you are in Connecticut PM me.

Jeff
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

old thread. i had a chicago monette in the '80s, price was $1500. plus shipping, #444. on the heavier side but not extreme.
comeback player with the internet age since then. if this is any indication, i never think wistfully about the monette, and would gladly have in its stead, either the WT i now play, a charlie melk tweaked bach, a jim becker tweaked bach, a scodwell, something from the adams line, and perhaps ten twenty other choices not mentioned. horns are not magic as much as having the right hands on them before they ship and having received advice from the person on the choice in the first place. you are the customer and should allow carefully chosen vendors to guide you.
with any trumpet, 40 oz. or less for me please. there is a staggering lot of very nice hardware you have to pass by on the way to a super expensive trumpet purchase.
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weezintrumpeteer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumping an oooold thread!

I've become interested in Chicago Monettes with the introduction of the MB-111 from them.

Does anyone know the history of the Chicago Bb models and what each of them were purported to do sound-wise? I've heard reference of lighter ones and heavier ones, but it's all a little murky to me and I'd love to have an understanding of all of this should I come across one for sale.

Additionally, I'm curious to know where the modern MB-111 slots in there. For a "standard" horn, is it on the heavier / darker side or lighter / brighter?
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Last edited by weezintrumpeteer on Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/Aa_H0ke1-zU

Trent Austin demonstrating and comparing the MB-111
along side a BAC trumpet in various musical styles.
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weezintrumpeteer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that vid, I have seen that.

I'm curious as to how the MB-111 fits in, sound wise, to some of the Chicago designs that I was curious about. Given that there seems to be some darker and lighter horns from the Chicago era, I'm wondering where the new MB-111 fits in.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing SN 134 for about a month now.

I've owned a fair amount of horns, and for me, this is the finest horn I've ever played. It plays like an amazing Mt. Vernon, in my opinion.

Sound-wise, I wouldn't say it's dark. More middle of the road than anything.

It's a little heavier than a Bach.
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun to see this thread brought back to life (for the second time).

In response to the most recent question about playing characteristics of vintage Chicago-era Monettes (presumably Bbs) and the new ‘retro’ MB-111, the problem lies in the question: unfortunately, there’s no “Chicago” model, nor was there one particular model or house style during the Chicago period where we can speak of general playing characteristics other than those specific to a given custom horn.

If your focus was comparing, say a late-80s 149XL to a mid-90s Ajna, there’s plenty to compare and contrast. However, a 900 series horn built in Chicago vs Portland - not so much…and, since we’re talking about CUSTOM horns built for specific player’s (their physical approach to playing and musical goals), you’re just as likely to have ‘identical’ models close in serial numbers still with noticeably different playing characteristics.

The models that did come around during the Chicago era, other than a “Standard” Bb or C (or the STC series whose sequence and development shows a variety of available colors and musical applications), were typically built in response to particular custom models that became popular options for friends/students/colleagues of players for whom they were originally built. So, you see model numbers come up, with the numbers themselves referencing original serial numbers of what could retrospectively be considered to be ‘prototypes.’ The popular orchestral C trumpets MC-77 and the 61X were model designs based on the original custom horns that had those serial numbers. Similarly, on the Bb side, the MB-111 and 149 were models after the success of these original serial numbers.

Which brings us back to the current retro horns. The Chicago MB-111 models originally being built in the 1980s and the new model which nods to that era are comparable in the following way: the new designs are superior in every way. Monette now makes all the components in-house, tolerances are better, the newer valve drilling patters, leadpipe and bell mandrels are vast improvements over what existed even just over a decade ago. Add to this what may have happened to a given instrument over a 40yr time span, and I do wonder whether the current ‘retro’ offerings will make a dent in the used/vitnage Monette market. Personally, I’m happy to play a new version of the MC-35 ‘retro’ C trumpet, which is a better horn in every way than the several Chicago and Portland C trumpets - of a variety of models - that I’ve owned previously.

Happy practicing!
-DB
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weezintrumpeteer wrote:
Thanks for that vid, I have seen that.

I'm curious as to how the MB-111 fits in, sound wise, to some of the Chicago designs that I was curious about. Given that there seems to be some darker and lighter horns from the Chicago era, I'm wondering where the new MB-111 fits in.


The new ‘retro’ models play in a very relatable manner for players accustomed to conventional horns, and have a similar weight to the most popular ‘music store’’ brands. They project noticeably further into a hall and with a wider sound shape than conventional horns, but are not nearly as radical as more modern Monette designs, in this regard.

There are videos of the MB-111 and MC-35 models as they were being introduced, often comparing these with popular custom offerings from the current Monette catalogue.

For a fairly comprehensive demo of the MB-111 by itself, check out the video of Charlie Porter putting it through its paces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkJJQCy4TdI

As it’s far more a resonant horn than any of the earlier Chicago models, I stick with what I said above: as a direct comparison to any Chicago horn, these are improvements in every way. When considering how these ‘’retro’’ models compare with specific builds from the Chicago-era, the most honest but unsatisfying answer I can give is that they’re ‘middle of the road’ (in the best sense). Sounds are not as small and directional as the lightest models of the era designed for this musical goal, nor are they as dark and heavy as other earlier models. However, as updated, more resonant instruments, they can offer a wider range of colors with improved response across the horn.

-DB
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Daniel Bassin
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I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD
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weezintrumpeteer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
I've been playing SN 134 for about a month now.

I've owned a fair amount of horns, and for me, this is the finest horn I've ever played. It plays like an amazing Mt. Vernon, in my opinion.

Sound-wise, I wouldn't say it's dark. More middle of the road than anything.

It's a little heavier than a Bach.


Thanks, that is good to hear and helpful.

Danbassin wrote:
Fun to see this thread brought back to life (for the second time).

In response to the most recent question about playing characteristics of vintage Chicago-era Monettes (presumably Bbs) and the new ‘retro’ MB-111, the problem lies in the question: unfortunately, there’s no “Chicago” model, nor was there one particular model or house style during the Chicago period where we can speak of general playing characteristics other than those specific to a given custom horn.

If your focus was comparing, say a late-80s 149XL to a mid-90s Ajna, there’s plenty to compare and contrast. However, a 900 series horn built in Chicago vs Portland - not so much…and, since we’re talking about CUSTOM horns built for specific player’s (their physical approach to playing and musical goals), you’re just as likely to have ‘identical’ models close in serial numbers still with noticeably different playing characteristics.

The models that did come around during the Chicago era, other than a “Standard” Bb or C (or the STC series whose sequence and development shows a variety of available colors and musical applications), were typically built in response to particular custom models that became popular options for friends/students/colleagues of players for whom they were originally built. So, you see model numbers come up, with the numbers themselves referencing original serial numbers of what could retrospectively be considered to be ‘prototypes.’ The popular orchestral C trumpets MC-77 and the 61X were model designs based on the original custom horns that had those serial numbers. Similarly, on the Bb side, the MB-111 and 149 were models after the success of these original serial numbers.

Which brings us back to the current retro horns. The Chicago MB-111 models originally being built in the 1980s and the new model which nods to that era are comparable in the following way: the new designs are superior in every way. Monette now makes all the components in-house, tolerances are better, the newer valve drilling patters, leadpipe and bell mandrels are vast improvements over what existed even just over a decade ago. Add to this what may have happened to a given instrument over a 40yr time span, and I do wonder whether the current ‘retro’ offerings will make a dent in the used/vitnage Monette market. Personally, I’m happy to play a new version of the MC-35 ‘retro’ C trumpet, which is a better horn in every way than the several Chicago and Portland C trumpets - of a variety of models - that I’ve owned previously.

Happy practicing!
-DB


This is all very helpful, thank you. You seem to know a lot about Monette and the early stuff - is this all information you've learned over the years or is there a "guide" of sorts anywhere?

The one thing about the Chicago Monettes that I was not understanding is that there were not so much different "models" as horns of different serial numbers, even if the horns serial number to serial number might have been different.

And at what point did Dave start creating "models" as the 149XL you mentioned? Was that in the late 80's? What about the STC range?

I have to admit that I find their naming schemes totally confusing, but that's just on me to learn.

I appreciate all of the insight!
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I bought it, I reached out to Monette and they sent me a very nice, very detailed email about the horn that echoes what Dan said above. There are no "Chicago models", as they were all custom builds according to the Monette peeps.

I've played some of the newer models and those horns are nothing like mine. I will say however that the owner before me had the valves replaced with the modern valves they use now, and apparently, that makes a huge difference. I suppose that's something to consider when looking at Chicago-era horns.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
Before I bought it, I reached out to Monette and they sent me a very nice, very detailed email about the horn that echoes what Dan said above. There are no "Chicago models", as they were all custom builds according to the Monette peeps.

I've played some of the newer models and those horns are nothing like mine. I will say however that the owner before me had the valves replaced with the modern valves they use now, and apparently, that makes a huge difference. I suppose that's something to consider when looking at Chicago-era horns.


They may maintain that now, but back in that time, Monette flyers even discussed them as models. The 61X C trumpet, the 149XL, a model MB77 (IIRC) that was on the list, and others. They were individually adjusted to the player, but they were still listed as models.

In 1997, when I asked Dave to make me a 61X C trumpet like the one I had been borrowing from Charles Gorham, he said he would consider it, but that it would have the updates that would enhance it, and be a far more modern, current Monette than just a 61X. And, I when I got it, it was...I will never part with that trumpet because it is an awesome instrument. The 149XL I got 6 years later was not as engaging, and though it is a great trumpet, it is not "as" great for me as my C.

My trumpets were made in Portland, though, and are truly special instruments.

Al
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weezintrumpeteer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really interesting that there is some disconnect in the history of these horns. It doesn't matter in the long run, I'm just curious as to how these all came to be.

I'm also curious as to the jump between the "regular" style horns vs the later "big bell" horns - what or who prompted the change, why it was changed, etc.
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