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chris botti on playing the flugel


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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:24 pm    Post subject: chris botti on playing the flugel Reply with quote

does anyone remember the exact quote. it was something to the effect that you should learn to play the trumpet properly and you wouldn't need a flugel, or that the trumpet could generate similar sounds.
whatever it was i found it tremendously funny.
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irememberchet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Botti said in an interview, and I quote:

"A lot of people play the flugelhorn to get a warmer trumpet sound," says Botti. "I've worked really hard to make my trumpet get a real brooding sound."
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks. i find the flugelhorn to be its own challenge... as well as being another toy to have fun with. all part of not growing up.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuck in ny wrote:
thanks. i find the flugelhorn to be its own challenge... as well as being another toy to have fun with. all part of not growing up.


Well said, Chuck.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonathanM wrote:
Well said, Chuck.

Indeed. Given that you’re not Chris Botti (you aren’t him, right?) you might as well do what works best for you.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently donated my Flugel to a local middle school. At the age of 86 I have discovered time on the trumpet was more important and it takes a lot of my time. The Flugel was nice but I just didn't have time to learn to play it properly. This past Wednesday night our band was the guest band at a concert held by the middle school where I donated the Flugel. A 14 or 15 year old girl was playing it as a member of their school. When she did her solo I was elated to know that the horn is being used rather than collecting dust in my music room.
George
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Didymus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:19 am    Post subject: Flugelhorns and Trumpets Reply with quote

I'm not an expert, I play the trumpet poorly, and I know I'm not much better at the flügelhorn, despite owning one even though I'm not "ready" for it. But, I cannot resist throwing my two cents into this discussion.

It seems like most flügelhorn players in the United States are trumpeters who double on the former. They use it as a contrast, like it's a device akin to a mute or an effects pedal, to make their trumpet "voice" sound different.

It's much easier to get a warm and mellow sound out of a flügelhorn than a trumpet. Professionals will say that they will use different types of trumpets or setups on a type of trumpet to make execution of passages or styles or sounds all possible with less effort. There is wisdom in that approach. Playing the trumpet is hard enough. Once you reach a certain level of proficiency, and you are playing in front of an audience who paid good money to listen to you, then you might as well use what's out there to make it easier for you to give your audience a high quality product.

I read Chris Botti's comment as the guy saying, "With some effort and practice, maybe with some other things to also help, I can give my trumpet voice the same qualities that people try to capture by switching to a flügelhorn for certain tunes. But a flügelhorn really is a different instrument with its own spectrum of timbre that mostly goes untouched or unexploited. I can get everything I want to out of the trumpet, I don't need to make the switch and play what is a different instrument like it's just a big fat trumpet that defaults to a mellower sound."

Maybe I'm reading too much into his comment. I'm also likely adding my own thinking about flügelhorns into Botti's comment. I will hear flügelhorn "specialists" exploit a bigger part of the instrument's timbrel spectrum than trumpeters who double on the flügelhorn. The latter most often stick to where it sounds most different from a trumpet, and rarely go further than that. That's OK, but a flügelhorn can do much more than give a pretty mellow sound (with less effort) in the middle range it shares with the trumpet.

Botti seems to be saying he can get that sound without resorting to a flügelhorn. More power to him. If an orchestral trumpeter finds that he can play the Samuel Goldenberg and Shmuel part in Pictures on the type of trumpet indicated by Ravel's orchestration, without switching to a piccolo trumpet, more power to him/her.

I don't know if Chris Botti is scolding his fellow pro trumpet players for using the flügelhorn as a crutch. I hope not. Botti himself relies on microphones and pedal effects and whatnot to assist him with achieving his particular sound. Like I wrote above, there is wisdom in switching to a different type of trumpet or setup on the trumpet to make it easier to do something, at least when you're already quite good at playing the instrument and charging people money to hear you play. (A flügelhorn isn't just a different type of trumpet though, but it does seem like a lot of trumpet players treat it that way, at least here in North America in the jazz & pop genres.) He has his way, other pros have their way.

Some of the most famous trumpet players around didn't or don't touch the flügelhorn. Louis Armstrong never did, Miles Davis tried for a short time and didn't like it. Wynton Marsalis, to my knowledge, never played it in public. Davis & Marsalis had their way of achieving a dark, brooding sound without resorting to a flügelhorn. Apparently, so has Botti.
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mattdalton
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB - good for you helping out the school, loved hearing your story there.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Dydimus

Years ago, I bought Chis Botti's Italia CD that included a DVD on the making of the album. I think it's his best work. In it, he talks about his approach to the trumpet and why he chooses to play the way he does and why he and his sound engineer craft his sound the way they do.

He said he wants to present the trumpet as an easy-listening instrument for a broader range of listeners than the more music savvy musician-based audience that typically chooses jazz players (like Miles) for their daily listening repertoire.

In another interview, Sting told how he discovered Chris and invited him to come on tour. He noted how Chris "presented himself well" and we all see that. He is very aware of how he looks to his audience, not out of vanity, but in a professional manner. I think part of his avoidance of the flugelhorn is that it doesn't fit the overall presentation he's after.

Over the years I've been on TH, threads periodically pop up that criticize Botti for being "too commercial" and not that much of a musician. That's Bolshevik! Like Kenny G and Herb Alpert before him, Chris knows that musicians are poor and the money to be made is with in a largely female audience not made up of musicians, but everyday ladies. They like a sexy looking guy and will spend money to get as close to him as their pocket books will allow. The LOOK is far more important than what the flugelhorn has to offer.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how a dude like Al Hirt would have done if he had gone Chris Botti's route.
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chase1973
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Hirt never would've done Boti's route-he was happy w the career he had, I'm sure. We each choose our own musical paths...Chris is a fantastic player, though I don't care for his music, I would NEVER put down his playing. He has his "bag" as it were and that's HIS bag...Chuck Mangione had his...Maynard had his, etc, etc. follow your heart and play the music YOU love-regardless of what others think.
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Learson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chase1973 wrote:
Al Hirt never would've done Boti's route-he was happy w the career he had, I'm sure. We each choose our own musical paths...Chris is a fantastic player, though I don't care for his music, I would NEVER put down his playing. He has his "bag" as it were and that's HIS bag...Chuck Mangione had his...Maynard had his, etc, etc. follow your heart and play the music YOU love-regardless of what others think.


That is great advice.
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Tivolian
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:

Like Kenny G and Herb Alpert before him, Chris knows that musicians are poor and the money to be made is with in a largely female audience not made up of musicians, but everyday ladies. They like a sexy looking guy and will spend money to get as close to him as their pocket books will allow. The LOOK is far more important than what the flugelhorn has to offer.


This sexist diatribe is a joke, right? Moderators -- where are you?
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tivolian wrote:
shofarguy wrote:

Like Kenny G and Herb Alpert before him, Chris knows that musicians are poor and the money to be made is with in a largely female audience not made up of musicians, but everyday ladies. They like a sexy looking guy and will spend money to get as close to him as their pocket books will allow. The LOOK is far more important than what the flugelhorn has to offer.


This sexist diatribe is a joke, right? Moderators -- where are you?


It's not sexist. It's an economic reality. It always has been. Do guys like good musicians and shows, too? Yes, of course, but, guess who told me about Kenny G, Josh Groban, Andrea Boccelli? All women. Who owned the CDs I first heard of these artists? All women. Why do guys buy concert tickets? A lot of the time it's to take their girl to the show.

When guys get together, they wear their favorite team T-shirt. When they take a girl out, they go to a nice restaurant and wear nicer clothes, because it makes a better impression.

Image is important in entertainment. That's what I'm saying.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
Tivolian wrote:
shofarguy wrote:

Like Kenny G and Herb Alpert before him, Chris knows that musicians are poor and the money to be made is with in a largely female audience not made up of musicians, but everyday ladies. They like a sexy looking guy and will spend money to get as close to him as their pocket books will allow. The LOOK is far more important than what the flugelhorn has to offer.


This sexist diatribe is a joke, right? Moderators -- where are you?


It's not sexist. It's an economic reality. It always has been. Do guys like good musicians and shows, too? Yes, of course, but, guess who told me about Kenny G, Josh Groban, Andrea Boccelli? All women. Who owned the CDs I first heard of these artists? All women. Why do guys buy concert tickets? A lot of the time it's to take their girl to the show.

When guys get together, they wear their favorite team T-shirt. When they take a girl out, they go to a nice restaurant and wear nicer clothes, because it makes a better impression.

Image is important in entertainment. That's what I'm saying.


Young Harry James, Ray Anthony, Pete Candoli, Chet Baker, Herb Alpert, Chris Botti- all fine players with a great image that appealed to ladies.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link


Was just thinking about the flugel/ tpt topic
as an Art Farmer vid was autofed on youtube.


Link


Followed by Chet Baker.

A couple of examples of timbre and ideas to throw in.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting how many link the flugelhorn to a ‘warm’ sound. Maybe it’s referring to the same thing (I find it hard to link written descriptions of a sound to an actual sound concept). Personally, I really like the flugelhorn when it has a ‘haunting sound’, like in say ‘Walking in the Air’ or ‘Concierto d’Arajuez’. Part of that is also the melancholic nature of the songs themselves of course, but a well-played flugel added on top of that becomes almost ‘icy, crystalline’-sounding, where a trumpet would sound ‘sad’. To my ears it’s a big contrast to the ‘happy, cozy jazz flugel’ that can be more easily approached on a trumpet.

Dunno if any of that makes any sense?


Link

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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattdalton wrote:
GeorgeB - good for you helping out the school, loved hearing your story there.


Thank you, Matt, I really believe in schools having music programs for students. The other night I was listening to 13 to 15 year old students playing music, and playing it well, and I found myself wishing that the schools I attended back in the 40's had music programs. That's why I try to help out those schools in any way I can. Donating my flugel was one of those ways.
George
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:


Dunno if any of that makes any sense?


Link


A most enjoyable example of beautiful music played wonderfully well!!!

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
Tivolian wrote:
shofarguy wrote:

Like Kenny G and Herb Alpert before him, Chris knows that musicians are poor and the money to be made is with in a largely female audience not made up of musicians, but everyday ladies. They like a sexy looking guy and will spend money to get as close to him as their pocket books will allow. The LOOK is far more important than what the flugelhorn has to offer.


This sexist diatribe is a joke, right? Moderators -- where are you?


It's not sexist. It's an economic reality. It always has been. Do guys like good musicians and shows, too? Yes, of course, but, guess who told me about Kenny G, Josh Groban, Andrea Boccelli? All women. Who owned the CDs I first heard of these artists? All women. Why do guys buy concert tickets? A lot of the time it's to take their girl to the show.

When guys get together, they wear their favorite team T-shirt. When they take a girl out, they go to a nice restaurant and wear nicer clothes, because it makes a better impression.

Image is important in entertainment. That's what I'm saying.


Two garbage takes. Bravo.
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