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On being a good student/relationship with teacher



 
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:05 am    Post subject: On being a good student/relationship with teacher Reply with quote

I remember watching those Yamaha videos at the inception of the artist model. John Hagstrom had this article/talk about how to be a good student. Years later, I am reading the world record 10k speed skater, Nils van der Poel training plan and he talks about his relationship with his coach. Below is a passage that outlines what he looked for in his coach and is useful for anybody going through some philosophical tension with their teacher. Granted, there are a lot more bad trumpet teachers than olympic coaches out there, but it's still useful. Also, great reading for a teacher dealing with advanced players. https://www.howtoskate.se/

Relationship to the coach
As a junior skater I would sometimes argue about the faults of my coach instead of discussing the possibilities to improve the training program. I would argue his lack of knowledge instead of arguing my motivation to achieve a different course of action. This was a dangerous path to take. Because I would only win the argument if he was wrong, and if he was wrong he lost the argument and so he became a loser, and so the coach became a loser, and so my closest support became a loser and I was the one who made him lose. Later on the loser would want his revenge and so we did not reward one another properly. Instead I had a concealed game going on that went something like “find flaws in him to confirm that I’m right about him being wrong”. Not quite optimal for a team. I think the situation occurred because we did not clearly pronounce who was in charge of what and who had the authority to make which call.

In recent years I never argued that my coach was wrong, but sometimes I argued that I had another idea that I, for reasons A and B, were more motivated to execute (note: more motivated to execute is not always the same thing as physiologically superior). Sometimes my coach would agree that my way was better and sometimes he wouldn’t. However, it was clear between us that I was always granted the final decision. Sometimes when we disagreed I went my way, negligating the advice of my coach. Sometimes his arguments exceeded mine and I thanked him explicitly for teaching me, and so I went his way. If the both of us had good arguments and I didn’t care too much which way we proceeded, I would always go his way. In this manner I confirmed my trust in him so that, when I wanted to do things my way, he showed his trust for me and supported me. In this manner, neither me nor my coach ever felt like we lost an argument and instead we were a winning team. To some people this way of working might seem manipulative, to me it wasn’t. Both my coach and I applied the same strategy to meet the common goal. It was not manipulation, but cooperation.

My coach had knowledge of training and experience I did not possess, but I felt and knew my body [and mind(!)] in a way that he could never do. I always tried to make rational decisions whilst training, not to push it when I needed rest but neither not pushing it enough because I was mentally weak and came up with excuses. Sometimes the right decision was to abort a session, but I was in a travers situation. As soon as I made the call to abort a session I no longer had to endure the grueling challenge of the hard work, but neither did I want to be a quitter. It is impossible to make a good and independent call in these situations and the assessment of my coach was very valuable for me and my confidence in myself.

I have never skated a 10k without questioning why I chose to become a speed skater. It always sucked with 10 laps to go, but working harder would only result in me blowing up too early. Every time I skated the 10k I was in doubt of my ability. This is why I considered the 10k to be The Distance. The King's distance. What I needed from my coach during the race was confidence. I told him prior to races what I wanted him to say to me as I skated. He said things like “You’re so good”, “looking strong”, “I believe in you” which made me feel more confident. He avoided saying things like “Come on, push it!” because it just made me feel as if I was not pushing it at the moment, which I of course was.

Another interesting thing I’ve been told by coaches throughout the years, during high intensity sessions, is “You’re not trying good enough”. Nothing ever made me less motivated or more angry than hearing that. If a coach considers his athlete not to try hard enough the solution is not to blame the athlete and make him feel guilty, but instead inspire the athlete and cheer him on. During high intensity work I was in pain as an athlete, when the outcome didn’t align with my expectations I was in even more pain, as a coach blamed me for it the pain multiplied. I needed my coach to ease my burden, not load it. My coach was very good when it came to easing my burden, not only during training, but also in life. He was the best friend I ever had.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! A great little dissertation on how not to dismiss!
Keeping up a friendly attitude, with respect. Same thing goes with children- a child truly lightens up when you say "I´ve seen that you really have made such an effort"...Instead of "nay that wasn´t good at all, do it again."
Encourage, building a relation of trust. Then gradually raise the bar - in an attentive way.

Nils is a rare bird - now he has attained what he wanted so he has left skating! From the top!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....
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Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read. The main point I take away from it is that the teaching approach used should be aimed at getting the best result for a particular student, as opposed to whatever is easiest for the teacher. If the student reacts better to the carrot, it's stupid to insist on using the stick 'just to toughen 'em up'.

A 'trumpet coach' rather than a 'trumpet teacher' is certainly something I'd be interested in. For the most part, the teachers I've recently tried tend to project their way of playing onto their students, essentially telling the student what to do and adhere to it strictly. Any questions or thoughts are quickly dismissed or discouraged. That approach apparently works for a lot of people, but not for me. Especially the bit that Nils van der Poel mentions about having knowledge about yourself that another person doesn't, and then supplement it with the other person's knowledge that you yourself do not have, rings a lot of truth with me. There are just some things I know about myself that will produce adverse effects (like mouthpiece buzzing or focusing on breath muscles), and if I could communicate just that to a teacher, it would save a lot of time experimenting yet again with techniques that I've repeatedly tried and failed at over the years.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following from Bullet proof musician might come in handy:
https://bulletproofmusician.com/give-students-critical-feedback-without-crushing-confidence/
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Getzen 300 series
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King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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guoliao
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Building a strong student-teacher relationship is a valuable aspect of being a good student. A positive relationship can enhance your learning experience, personal growth, and overall academic success. Teachers also play a crucial role in creating a conducive learning environment. By demonstrating respect, dedication, and a commitment to learning, you can foster a healthy and productive relationship with your teachers, which will contribute to your overall success as a student.
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chickenburger
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting to read.
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