Mouthpiece buzzing, what say you?

[Learson]

[patdublc]

Always an interesting topic. I do a very small amount of mouthpiece buzzing. Doc Severinsen has said that he buzzes on the mouthpiece until he finds the right sound before ever picking up his horn. John Daniel has an excellent chapter on mouthpiece buzzing in his book.
I leave it to personal taste.
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

[cheiden]

[LaTrompeta]

I say no. Others say yes. I haven't found it to be super-effective for me. But yes, the Stamp studies do have a strong case for it.
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[jadickson]

My experience is that the resistance of the mouthpiece alone is very different from the resistance of the mouthpiece + trumpet.
Therefore, your embouchure will not be the same for both.
Therefore, you are building two different muscle memories. Maybe that is not good.

You would need to add tension somewhere, to compensate for the lost resistance of the horn. So you are intentionally teaching yourself to play with detrimental tension.

However, if you are unable to blow "sirens", that may be an indication that your embouchure or technique has problems.
So I tell my middle school kids, you should only practice sirens if you cannot do them. Once you can do them, just play the horn.
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com

[Vin DiBona]

Two magnificent trumpet players advocated mouthpiece buzzing: James Thompson and Bud Herseth.

However, Herseth advocated doing no drills on it, but to play tunes. He also that believed doing an occasional practice session on the mouthpiece alone could be beneficial. Herseth always carried his mouthpiece in his pocket and for the fun of it, would sometimes "serenade" his foursome while on the golf course.

Jim Thompson wrote a book called Buzzing Basics that came with a CD. I have used both methods. I do prefer to play songs on the mouthpiece alone, but just as a warm-up before putting it in the horn. I do not do that every day, but when I hear things in my sound I do not like, playing a simple song on the mouthpiece seems to correct things quickly.

In high school, I was taught the proper way(s) to use the mouthpiece.

R. Tomasek

[shofarguy]

[kalijah]

The original context was in regard to a trumpet newbie, the OP. I advise against insisting that the student buzz the mouthpiece ONLY as the introduction to the instrument. Specifically for beginners, and as a developmental exercise for new players that have not developed the skill of even a reasonably good tone.

Beginners have significant difficulty recognizing and exploiting the acoustic resonance of the FULL instrument. They have NO established precedent, skill, or habits in regard to playing the instrument. They may have a pre-conceived idea based on what they have seen, of players using great effort to belt-out tones that are usually loud or high. The major obstacle is the beginner's tendency to over-clamp and contort the lips using excessive embouchure effort along with use of excessive blowing effort. Buzzing, mp or free, for a beginner encourages BOTH of those actions.

A beginner can barely recognize or feel the instrument resonance, much less the tiny resonance in the mp. If they are taught to forcibly buzz the mouthpiece, they will forcibly "buzz" the instrument.

Regarding resistance.

It's not simply flow "resistance" that the full instrument offers. The actual flow resistance of the mouthpiece vs the full instrument is dominated by the mouthpiece throat and is not that much different for either case with only slightly more for the full instrument. Adding the resistance of the lip aperture which is also present in both cases. So, the total air flow resistance of each case is not terribly different. But air power applied to a resonant tone introduces the resistance of the acoustic impedance which is very significant. The air power is then applied to tone which, for the same blowing effort does a cascade of things: It increases the total resistance and therefore reduces the air flow. This reduces the viscous flow air power losses through the aperture in particular and through the mp throat. The mp throat now becomes a more significant contributor in an acoustic sense, rather than just a simple flow resistance alone. The air power is applied to the tonal power and not just the air power losses through the high-flow aperture.

There IS an approach that encourages a student to exploit and recognize the instrument acoustics AND gives them a far better chance of producing a nice tone with less effort WHILE realizing the resonance of the instrument. It puts them on a trajectory of more immediate and long-term success and productive habits. It involves playing the FULL instrument.

Buzzing for advance players is yet another thing. It ranges from those who do it poorly purely out of habit and in such a way that it is a deterrent. (e.g. "Walk-ins", CRINGE!)

I do some particular mouthpiece work that undeniably helps, with sometimes very good results. It is a very passive approach effort-wise that explores the TINY bit of resonance that the mouthpiece does have. AND as calisthenic, on occasion I will extend a Caruso exercise by "playing" them on the mouthpiece.

One should never buzz anything. Always "PLAY" it.

[shofarguy]

[Vin DiBona]

Brian,
That was Mendez who did that with his beginning students.
R. Tomasek

[JWG]

Mouthpiece buzzing: Do It!

An amazing teacher that I once had always reminded me: "If you cannot buzz it, you cannot play it."

I recall a Bobby Shew seminar wherein he said that the mouthpiece IS the instrument and the trumpet merely resonates what happens between you and the mouthpiece.

In terms of physics, our lips must vibrate sympathetically with the standing wave vibrating in the air column between the mouthpiece and bell to sustain a tone.

However, the initial characteristics and qualities of that wave begin within us (air pressure and oral cavity shape), and our face muscles control how we control and release that air pressure and the tonality created by how we shape our oral cavity.

Strong embouchure muscles come from working out those muscles by playing, buzzing, and using strengthening devices like Warburton PETE.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would not want to strengthen their embouchure without the trumpet through mouthpiece buzzing, free buzzing, and a PETE device. I theorize that those who do not strengthen their embouchures away from the trumpet often end up pressing and having playing problems due to inherently weak embouchure muscles.
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Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[kehaulani]

"There have been many threads here on buzzing that become long and useless and a waste of time reading. Nothing gets settled."
George
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[kalijah]

[Trumpjerele]

[Robert P]

[jhatpro]

I recall sitting in the lobby of Chicago’s Blackstone Hotel waiting for the door to the Jazz Showcase to be opened. Art Farmer walked by and he was buzzing as he walked. I decided then and there if it was good for him it would be good for me, too.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[dstpt]

It seems that the various sides to this argument are stated in this thread, already, but I'd like to know this:

Are there any readers who believe, or have heard taught, that the activity of mouthpiece buzzing is identical for them/others as actually playing the instrument? I'd be curious to know if things are that extreme somewhere.

Personally, I have tried, and in some cases continue to use, all kinds of aids and approaches to help me become a better trumpet player. I'd say those "aids/approaches" are less than 5% of my time with the instrument, though. I recently viewed, and have been using fairly regularly, some Wim Hof breathing techniques and embouchure "tweaks" that I've seen/heard Tom Hooten discuss in some of his YouTube videos. This past fall, I received a Stomvi Upsound* with a used horn purchase, and it does provide a very similar resistance and sensation to playing the horn but without locking you into notes/harmonics we get in playing the instrument. I now use it to get my day started and find it very useful. It's pricey to purchase, I know, so you might ask if I would have bought one outright after spending time, say, at a trade show? Not sure. I spend so little time on it, I know I could do without, especially since I did without for years. I'd say if you have the extra $$, then buy one. I do believe it is tons better than regular mouthpiece buzzing, because it does approximate the resistance and feel of playing the entire system of tpt & mpc.

One caveat: Be sure to watch the video on the Stomvi, USA, website entitled “Usage Tips (Includes how to clear the resistance). This shows you how to "empty" the device from built-up condensation in the porous, ceramic-like (my wording) “membrane" filter that creates the main part of the resistance. It is frustrating at first if all of the sudden you can barely get a sound to come out, and then you spend time doing searches all over the Internet, trying to figure out what is wrong! Ha! All you have to do is remove your mpc and separate the mpc "receiver" section from the bottom/resonator part of the device. I like leaving the bottom/resonator loosely "cupped" over the end of the filter, so that droplets of condensation don’t go everywhere. Then you start blowing fairly vigorously through it to blow out most of the moisture. That's it. Takes less than five seconds, and you’re back up and running.


*This was not an advertisement and was certainly NOT paid for by the originators of the Upsound...unfortunately.

[dstpt]

[richardpeck]

Lots of different comments, and different takes on buzzing. For me, Buzzing without mouthpiece to loosen up - time varies on how strenuous the day before was in playing! - and then 5-10 minutes of mouthpiece buzzing seemed to help me in centering the sound. So much of it is mental and routine dependent.
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R J Peck

[Jerry]

Wayne Bergeron on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzB7r9C_LrU