Why is cornet easier to play than trumpet (for me)?

[Dale Proctor]

[richardwy]

[oxleyk]

Dale, is the shank on that mouthpiece smaller in diameter than on modern pieces? I'm using a Wick 4B and a 4 and they don't go in as far as they do on my Olds Ambassador.

Kent

[Dale Proctor]

Yes, it's slightly smaller. I bought it on eBay for my Civil War cornet, which takes a smaller shank, but it works well on the Besson (but goes in a little too far). That said, my modern mouthpieces fit the Besson about the same way they fit my other cornets, so the older Besson you're playing may have a smaller receiver than mine does.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[arran01]

I'm glad I found this thread.
I got my first cornet, a Besson 600 last month, after years of trumpet playing, and absolutely love it!

It is maybe all psychological for me, but I use the same depth of mouthpiece on both cornet and trumpet, yet I am sure the sound from my cornet is less wavy/shaky than I produce with my trumpet, a Bach Stradivarius.

I even feel guilty about it, as the cornet was bought cheaply off ebay second hand, whereas the Bach was a present, but I just love the sound it makes.

I'm just hoping my trumpet teacher won't be irked if I bring it to my next lesson, and I can sit an exam with it instead of on my trumpet.
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Gordon

[MacMichael]

[connicalman]

Cornet and F horn, cousins by lineage.

Cornet and trumpet, siblings by doctoring.

Cue Frau Blucher: "Hee wazz mayh buoyyyyffrrrrrienddd!"

Glad to hear notes from another cornet fan. Nice posts in response, too. Enjoy the ride!
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστε��ισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...

[p76]

Had a four hour brass band gig last weekend - 2 hours, half hour break, then another two hours. Whole gig on Solo and Repiano parts - made it through.....just. Don't think I could do that on a trumpet....

Cheers,
Roger
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Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[derby_mute]

The question was raised "why did the trumpet replace the cornet?" The evidence suggests that, in part, it was due to symphony orchestras switching to the trumpet. Conductors preferred the brighter sound and the projection.

Second, something I have pointed out before, is that once dance bands started to become the primary performers of popular music (in the 1920s), they needed to fill ballrooms that were being made for larger crowds of dancers (which is why the larger bands replaced small groups). Cornets didn't have the projection ability. Even die-hard cornetists, like Bix Beiderbecke, played trumpet-like cornets (Conn 80A, Bach long model). As the 1920s progressed, there were fewer and fewer cornet players in 10 piece plus dance bands.

Finally, the instrument companies themselves pushed the trumpet. I'm very lucky to have xerox copies, from the Library of Congress, of Conn's "Musical Truth." As the 1920s progressed, the magazine clearly favors the trumpet, with splashy ads for the 22B, 2B and other models, and photos showing dance bands with trumpet players, and captions like "so and so's band uses Conn instrument's exclusively."

One of the easiest ways get a sense of the trumpet's predominance is to look through one of the photographic histories of jazz, like "Black Beauty, White Heat" or "The Pictorial History of Jazz." Generally speaking, bands with more than one upper brass instrument had trumpets.
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Cornets:
Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
Baldwin Custom (Blessing Artist stencil)
1923 Buescher shepherd's crook
1880 F. Besson Paris
Trumpets:
1931 Cleveland Greyhound
1935 Olds French model

[zentrumpet]

Lots of great replies. I'll only say that I have found my Yamaha Xeno cornet much easier to play than any of my trumpets (Scodwell, Bach, Getzen, Lawler), but getting it to project as much is a real struggle. Wish I could find a trumpet as easy to play and nice to listen to.
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Mike
Scodwell Trumpet #118
Yamaha Xeno Cornet
Yamaha YFH6310Z Flugelhorn

[RNJTrumpet]

Put me in the 'I agree' category. I typically play trumpet in a community band - but when asked to play as the only trumpet in a small ensemble, I found the cornet much easier (physically and musically).

I enjoyed it so much I brought it to my concert band for several rehearsals when I was also using it with my small ensemble. The guy next to me said "are you going to play THAT THING from now on?"

Truthfully I wanted to, just to piss him off, but I could not keep up with 6 - 10 screaming middle schoolers and weekend warriors. Oddly, half the arrangements we use are for 'cornet' - go figure.

[etc-etc]

[connicalman]

Cornets seem to me akin to the wave theory of light, and trumpets, the particle version of the same story. Each instrument can cover a large portion of the other's rep. Yet, there comes a point where the rounded wavies can't bounce photons off the proverbial back wall, just as the discrete particles can't quite make a rainbow arond the soft light of the moon.

Why are there chocolate chips in chocolate ice cream? Exactly.
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστε��ισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...

[shofarguy]

[JWG]

I think the deeper cup of the cornet mouthpiece makes a big difference to easy of play.

With my trumpet, I frequently use Flip Oakes TTC and XT mouthpieces, both of which use a deep "V" cornet cup in their design. With these mouthpieces, projection is not a big problem, because you get a big sound from them, especially the XT. In ensemble playing, I frequently had to decrease my volume when playing 2nd parts due to my over abundance of enthusiasm in fff sections overpowering the 1st parts and putting the section's balance "outta wack."

I find Flip's deep cup mouthpieces easier to play on than my Bach 24/24 orchestral mouthpiece or other standard Bach mouthpieces, as Flip's mouthpieces have less resistance due to having large throats and backbores. While many traditionalists disagree, I find that more resistance means more work and getting fatigued and tired faster. Think about it, if large throats and backbores caused endurance problems, why do low brass players never seem to get tired compared to high brass players?!?!?! It seems that an over-application of "commonsense" has led to the standard of higher resistance, shallower cup, smaller throat, smaller backbore lead mouthpieces.

You can see some diagrams of the deep "V" cup of the TCC on Flip's website; Flip has not updated his website with the XT (extreme trumpet) mouthpiece, but he has them in stock.

http://www.flipoakes.com/mouthpieces.htm

Flip's "out-side-of-the-box" designs are ingenious, because they tap into century-old ideas (like deep cornet cups) that modern designers have forgotten and/or dismissed as obsolete.

So, for what it's worth, that's my $0.02.

[Richard III]

I had two horns in HS: a Benge 3x and a nothing cornet. Every opportunity I played the quirrelly intonation weird little cornet and avoided the awesome Benge. It's not just playing that is better, just holding is better. But then, part of it, for me is how close the valves are to my face. This makes the horn more comfortable to hold. Too bad they can't make trumpets like that.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[barryj1]

I agree with Richard. Since getting my new cornet last spring, I haven't picked up the trumpet more than a half dozen times.
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Getzen 800DLX cornet
Flip Oaks 1X mouthpiece

[Destructo]

This is a Zombie thread, I know.

But ... it has also been my experience that a 470 bore cornet just feels significantly easier to play than a Bach 37.

With a Wick B cup type cup depth, which I believe is still deeper than pretty much any trumpet mouthpiece, it's a really very comfortable playing experience.

People say cornets project worse, but my experience has been if you use the same.depth mouthpiece on cornet as the trumpet, it will feel easier on the corner and project better. It's only when you're comparing a Deep mouthpiece to a shallow mouthpiece that there's much difference in projection.

If I use a trumpet Bach D cup sort of depth on both, the range above high D through to Double C comes out easier and bigger sounding from the cornet and it feels more locked in.

I've honestly started wondering... Are there trumpets that are large bore cornets in disguise but with a receiver to take a trumpet mouthpiece? If so, I'd love to try one. That'd be a fun instrument I reckon, provided the intonation is not awful...

[stuartissimo]

[Brassnose]

Pricey https://www.inderbinen.com/en/maroon-en
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier