Martin Committee - love the tone, not the mechanics

[weezintrumpeteer]

I have had a Martin Committee #3 bore for many years and have played it on and off.

I really enjoy the sweet, dark tone from the horn, but I've realized that I don't really like anything else about it. Sacrilege maybe, but I don't think the playing characteristics are really for me. The slotting is too loose for my tastes, the intonation is not ideal, and frankly I don't enjoy the valves or the third slide ring. I do like how it looks though!

For reference, my 2 favorite horns to play are my Getzen 800 cornet and Selmer Radial.

Two questions:

1. Are there horns out there that come close to the sound of the Martin, but have somewhat more "traditional" - I suppose, mechanics? Do any of the Martin "clones" do that that? (Adams, Lawler, etc).

2. Should I just try another Committee, perhaps a medium bore? My #3 bore is the only Committee I have ever played. I have often wondered if it's just the large bore that doesn't work well with me.
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'70 Selmer Radial
'70's Getzen Eterna Cornet
'47 Martin Committee Deluxe #3
'06 Monette B993

[Brassnose]

I can only comment on the sacrilege part: my teacher stated exactly the same about the playability etc., so at least you’re not alone
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Subtropical and Subpar]

I recall from a past TH thread comparing the various Martin Committee homage horns that the Kanstul 1603 (I think that's the number) was generally considered the closest in feel and sound to the Committee, while offering much improved intonation and playability.
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1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[Richard III]

I'm going to inject some sanity into this discussion. If you have access to a good recording device, use to to record the beloved and revered Committee and any other horn. Then tell me if it is worth the pain. Seriously, we talk endlessly about nuances of sound, most of which is our perception behind the horn. What if the reality is that the sound is mostly us and the mouthpiece? So if that is true, why not play the horn with the best intonation and response?
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Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

[shofarguy]

I agree that some of the Committee mechanics aren't great. My list starts with the adjustable finger ring... on the side. I recognize that the trombone water keys are part of the uniqueness of the horn, but they're a royal pain.

The mechanics that I do like are the close valves. Having them right up to the player causes me to think and feel intimate, which leads on to jazz and ballad playing. I also really like the way the horn plumbing is put together, with the narrow width and the valve ports that allow that. Who can resist those bell braces? So iconic!

Intonation. Maybe they just weren't consistent, but the large bore I played for a few weeks had small differences compared to other trumpets, but nothing drastic for me, anyway. I do remember sensing a different scale to the horn when I first played a Kanstul 1603. That horn and the Martin are as close a match as any two distinct trumpets I've ever come across. Later, I just adapted, subconsciously.

Slotting. Yes, the Martin gives a person room to move the pitch, but my guess is that the age and, particularly, the wear of the valves and slides may have exacerbated that. At least the horn has enough intrinsic value to warrant rebuilding and refitting by a high quality technician.

All in all, the time I had with the 1956 Large bore Martin showed me why that trumpet is so sought after now. I think it has the most distinct personality of any trumpet I've come across, with its design, sound, history and cachet.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[jeirvine]

Find one with a #2 bore to try. It would probably be very easy to find someone who would swap, since the 3 bores are rarer.
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1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37

[Ronnman]

weezintrumpeteer - Do you think you may have valve clearances issues (worn valves) on your Committee? What about valve alignment, have you had a PVA (Precision Valve Alignment)?

There is definitely different mechanical arrangements on this horn that are challenging as already mentioned, i e… the 3rd valve slide ring, the water keys and a some what tighter tube wrap for my hands.

Another factor in slotting is the large mouthpiece/receiver gap. My medium bore Committee is an average of .941” across some 15 different mouthpieces. This compared to .080” average of my other horns.

Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

[TJTS]

1. I can't speak for Adams or Schilke, but I have never thought the Lawler C7 played or sounded like a Committee. My opinion of course.

2. The large bores I have owned in the past were very hard to play and had significant intonation issues. It's normal to see these horns with the tuning slide out quite a bit to get them to play reasonably in tune.

One thing I have noticed with some Committees is the receiver can be easily worn down to a level that impacts the gap and thus the playability of the horn. Charlie Melk offers a reproduction receiver for this reason.

I personally like the medium bore horns better and find them easier to play and they have better intonation than the large bores (at least the ones I have owned). Of course, some are better than others in that department. The four I own right now all have good intonation for a Committee. Some blow more open than others. Each Committee is its own animal.
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Michael | Owner
www.thejazztrumpetstore.com
Vintage Professional Trumpet Store

[kehaulani]

Ah feel yur pain!

(Spoiler: I'm referring only to the medium-bore horns.)

I've had four Committees and, every time, wonder if the tone and "mystique" are worth it. Think about it. Of all the pioneers who came out of the Commitee heyday, who still plays one today and who has moved on?

I like my Committee. I like a little leeway in slotting. I am not a legit guy and I played Sax professionally for a number of years, so I'm not as uncomfortable as some trumpet players might be with the slotting. Nevertheless, I can benefit with narrowing slotting than my Committee gives me.

As far as ergonomics, yes, actually I find the spit-key "trombone" keys a nuisance also, but otherwise, I like the flexibility, feedback in all areas from the horn. It's easy and comfortable to play.

I wouldn't play it in an orchestra but otherwise, I think with the right mouthpiece, it's adaptable to many styles/ensembles.

If you want a sound approaching that darker, jazz combo sound but with better slotting, current warranty security and more versatility try a Schilke B-1, B-7 and an Adams A-9.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[yourbrass]

The only Committees I've liked in decades of working on and play testing them were a couple of #2's and a Handcraft #1 (small bore).

I've never played a #3 that I liked and had one many years ago that I rebuilt so it was in tune and consistent from top to bottom. I had to replace the entire front section of the horn from mouthpiece receiver to 3rd valve to do so.

That horn is still out there somewhere, I saw it sold on ebay some years ago.

-Lionel
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[SilverSpunk]

Honestly, if you don't like the slotting of the Committee but want a similar sound, I would highly suggest either the Schilke Handcraft or the Adams A9, both of these horns have "modern slotting" and are in the general shape specifications of the Committee with some tweaks here and there. The Schilke Handcraft might be designed after the Handraft Committee rather than the post war Committees but they're very similar anyway.

I can't speak for the Lawler copy, Kanstul copy or the "new" modern Martin Committees from the Martin Company because I've never tested those.




Now for vintage options, I would say you could try the

Martin Handcraft Imperials (Lion Bell version), many players prefer this to the Committee becuase they have better slotting but still has that Committee-like diffused sound.
(These horns are a bit longer than the HC or post war Committees and have a more balanced action placement of the valve block, it is postioned in the center of the horn as opposed to the traditional Besson/Martin placement)

Martin Handcraft Committee, very similar to the HCI but is a transitional design between the HCI and post war Committees, still has better slotting than the Committee.

[Strobe]

Tried a few M bore normal Committees and I didn't like them but tried a Deluxe Committee, M bore, and love it. May have just tried a few bad Committees as I've heard there is inconsistency from horn to horn. Have a Bach Strad that I use for symphonic band but use the Committee ( and occasionally a Martin Troubadour) for Jazz. Tried my Olds SR-nice horn but slots so well that I feel limited so just not for me. Personally don't mind the need to be "on point" to get the notes in tune with the Committee as it balances the ability to bend and get creative with the Committee. Would like to try a large bore to se how it works compared ot the M.
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Martin Committee Deluxe '52
Martin Troubadour '35
Bach Strad 37 ' 82
Bach Hybrid 239
Olds Super Recording ''40's
King Cleveland ''76 (My First)
Olds Super Cornet ' '59
Boston 3 Star Cornet 1912
King Silvertone Cornet '35

[weezintrumpeteer]

Thanks all for the discussion. I figured it would be somewhat lively!

@Brassnose -

@Subtrop - thanks, I'll take a look into that horn.

@RIII - I get what you're saying, I really do, but what's most important to me is how the horn sounds at my ears. I notice a difference between the Committee and my other horns, and that's why I've posed the question. I mostly play alone these days, for fun.

@shofarguy - I also like the close valves! I don't like the tight vertical wrap as much, and I'm guessing that's why the third slide ring is "recessed" a bit - for space. It's interesting, I hear people say they love the #3 bore (and that's what the Kanstul is based on) and other say that the #2 bore works much better. I must be in the camp where the #2 would work better for me, although I haven't tried one.

@jeirvine - that's a good idea. Anyone in the bay area with a #2 bore that what's to try my #3 Deluxe?

@Ronnman - I've had the horn aligned by Charlie Melk in the past, so I know it's not that. As far as I know the valves aren't *too* worn. Mouthpiece gap is interesting - I'll have to check that out.

@TJTS - thank you! Very helpful. I used to live down the road from Charlie when he was in Wisconsin - he's seen my Committee, but I didn't have him do a leadpipe. Perhaps that's a good idea before moving on (although it would kill the originality of it).

@kehaulani - thanks for the opinion and suggestions!

@yourbrass - good to know. It seems that many are in this camp, but it seems weird that at least some of the copies (Kanstul, Adams), use the large bore as their basis.

@SilverSpunk - thanks! That is really helpful.

@Strobe - you can try mine if I can try yours! Deluxe for Deluxe
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'70 Selmer Radial
'70's Getzen Eterna Cornet
'47 Martin Committee Deluxe #3
'06 Monette B993

[Strobe]

[Brent]

The Schilke Handcraft. I’d take that over any vintage Committee any day.
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Brent

[weezintrumpeteer]

[Bill Ortiz]

Hi weezintrumpeteer. if you're looking for someone to take it off your hands... :)
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'56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA