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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| annvill wrote: | Donat's site says Touvron = Monette B6S1
It seems to me that the closest to the Monette B6S1 is the Donat 168D.
Can anyone make a comparison between Donat and Bach and Monette? |
The B61 is the updated ‘slap’ cup version of the B6, which was modeled after the modern Bach 3C.
Note that historic Bach 3C sizes varied in dimensions - for example, the original Monette B4S was designed after a Mt. Vernon Bach 3C played by Lew Soloff (hence the ’S’), but this is closer in size to a modern Bach 1.5C.
I hope the above about the size equivalence of the Monette B6 and Bach 3C is helpful.
When the B6 was updated to the B6S1, the shape of the cup was updated with what Monette called his ‘slap’ design. This wasn’t a change to one universal new cup design, but a redesign of all Monette cups (sometimes several variants of depth and ‘slap’ shape per rim size) to improve articulations, clarity of sound across the registers, responsiveness, etc. Part of this being a direct result of the onset of CNC technology and the embrace of these components in the design and manufacture of Monette gear.
Best,
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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enrico
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Joined: 05 Jul 2021
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:53 am Post subject: |
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I am very interested in this Donat Touvron. Is it good for jazz? For lead? It feels quite U-shaped, very scooped on the sides, doesn't that make high notes difficult?
I had tried the 168D, excellent, but I have a fairly bright trumpet (B&S 3137/1) and the mouthpiece is also bright. |
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nowave
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 453
Location: brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| If you get on with the size & rim I think the Touvron would be great for anything except lead/commercial playing. He's got a Touvron D and a Touvron E with progressively shallower cups if you need more cut in the sound. But all are extremely easy to play in all registers and the stability in connecting registers is addictive. |
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enrico
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Joined: 05 Jul 2021
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| nowave wrote: | | If you get on with the size & rim I think the Touvron would be great for anything except lead/commercial playing. He's got a Touvron D and a Touvron E with progressively shallower cups if you need more cut in the sound. But all are extremely easy to play in all registers and the stability in connecting registers is addictive. |
I thank you. How similar is the Trouvon to the Monette B6S1 ? (Donat considers them similar) |
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nowave
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 453
Location: brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Hi enrico -
I've owned both, but not at the same time, so take this for what it's worth.
The Touvron rim is quite different... flatter and a touch fatter. I think it must have more cup volume than the Monette, and the undercut almost seems like it scoops inward, as if a smaller-diameter rim is blended with a larger cup. Not sure if that's true but that's what it feels like on my face. Medium-sharp bite.
I like the Touvron and the B6S1 but aside from general size they're not very similar. I prefer the Touvron but as always YMMV. |
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I had a chance to play a Touvron recently. I really liked the rim, the sound, and the articulation for the classical and Christmas music I was playing.
However, the mouthpiece stopped me at high C. Even A over the staff was harder to play than it should have been, and this bothered me at the end of the performance. Though I rarely use high notes, I am comfortable up to F over high C on my GR 66MS in a big band setting.
So, the Touvron will remain in my case for gigs where I need a nice, clean sound and notes above the staff will not played.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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enrico
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Joined: 05 Jul 2021
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| In the end I bought a Donat Touvron and a 168D. The 168D is brighter than the Monette B6S1, and much brighter than the Bach 3C. The Touvron is hard to play high, very hard. This doesn't seem like much news to me. |
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ALETRUMPET
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Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, I have to say after a honeymoon, they are nothing special. The Touvron has a very strange cup, otherwise very difficult to play above high C. The 169C in my opinion is too deep, too dark sound for me. The 168D is perhaps the best, but the sound is certainly not that of the Monette B6S1 |
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ALETRUMPET
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Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| May I ask Larrios for a comparison between the sound of the Bach 3C and the Donat 168D, on trumpet? |
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Larrios
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Believe it or not, I never owned a Bach 3C. I do have a cheap Arnolds&Sons 3C. Compared to that, the 168D is brighter, in Classic blank. The Massive is darker and more agressive than the Classic blank, the Light even brighter than the Classic blank, but I don't have them here to compare to the 3C. Personally, I prefer this model in Classic blank. I consider it an all round mouthpiece.
Ko |
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone compared playing the Touvron with the Touvron-D? I just looked at the 2023 catalog and it appears that the Touvron-D might have the same feel but a slightly better high range. I'm not talking about any kind of lead piece here; I just want a bit more assurance above the staff.
This is catalog I looked at. Page 6: https://balanced-embouchure.eu/onewebmedia/Catalog2023EN.pdf
_________________
Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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ALETRUMPET
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Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Larrios wrote: | Believe it or not, I never owned a Bach 3C. I do have a cheap Arnolds&Sons 3C. Compared to that, the 168D is brighter, in Classic blank. The Massive is darker and more agressive than the Classic blank, the Light even brighter than the Classic blank, but I don't have them here to compare to the 3C. Personally, I prefer this model in Classic blank. I consider it an all round mouthpiece.
Ko |
Don't you find that despite a throat of #23 it seems to be a bit stuffy? The 168D massive has very good intonation, but seems to be harder on the high notes than the Bac 3C or Monette B6S1. |
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Larrios
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Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| ALETRUMPET wrote: | | Don't you find that despite a throat of #23 it seems to be a bit stuffy? The 168D massive has very good intonation, but seems to be harder on the high notes than the Bac 3C or Monette B6S1. |
I don't have any problems with it, nor with the Touvron for that matter. For me, they both play very well. As I mentioned earlier, I do find the 168D best in Classic blank, but that's just a personal preference.
Ko |
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Riojazz wrote: | Has anyone compared playing the Touvron with the Touvron-D? I just looked at the 2023 catalog and it appears that the Touvron-D might have the same feel but a slightly better high range. I'm not talking about any kind of lead piece here; I just want a bit more assurance above the staff.
This is catalog I looked at. Page 6: https://balanced-embouchure.eu/onewebmedia/Catalog2023EN.pdf |
Answering my own question:
Yes! I took a flyer - why not?
The Touvron-D is a similar feeling mouthpiece to switch to from the regular Touvron, and it eliminates the high C limit easily. The tone is not quite as brilliant because of the more V-shape cup rather than the regular Touvron's more C-shaped cup, but it's all around very nice to play. Note: I will use this in church with more confidence since it removes the concern I had with the regular Touvron about notes over the staff. For big-band, though, I'll continue to use my GR 66MS Sanborn.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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annvill
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Joined: 16 Oct 2020
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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It seems nobody plays the 168D. Larrios and the seller of the mouthpieces Donat, perhaps his judgment is not very representative.
The Touvron is a mouthpiece however with big limitations.
Perhaps copies of the Monettes remain, but only copies. |
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Larrios
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Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands
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annvill
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It would be nice to have videos on Bb trumpet |
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enrico
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Joined: 05 Jul 2021
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| I have found the Touvron Classic to be more difficult to play than the Touvron Massive. With the Touvron Massive there are fewer problems on the high notes. Does anyone have experience with the Touvron Massive? |
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3861
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Joined: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| I am interested in this Donat Touvron Massive version. I tried one for a few minutes, the profile is very similar to the Holton Heim 2. It sounds good, but what has been written worries me that it is difficult to get on the high notes. Anyone else have experience with this Massive version mouthpiece? |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9004
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:12 am Post subject: |
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I can neither endorse nor dis the Donat, and I have another model than what you are concerned about. But FYI, mine sits in my closet. Not a bad mouthpiece, just no value added to what I already have.
If it were me (and you're not), I would either save my money or spend it on something else.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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