Equipment Issue or Chops (can't reliably hit A above staff)

[prinmancz52]

When I want to start on High A, I invariably miss it. I have no problem doing the same with G, B, C, just A. Could this be my valves being out of alignment with my slides, or is it just something with my chops? It is really frustrating when trying to play the beginning fanfare of Lonely Bull!

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
_________________
Chuck

King Super 20 Silver Sonic Symphony (1965)
Reynolds Silver Bell and Lead-pipe 1938 Cornet

[CTrumpeter]

Hi Chuck,

There is a great exercise in the Augie Haas "Build Your Range" book that deals with this exact idea and might be helpful to you.

This is how he wrote it; in 4/4, at a tempo of 96 bpm, you attack one accented quarter-note on the downbeat of each bar, at a 'mp' dynamic (though you could experiment with dynamics as needed). Do this for five bars in a row, breathing in on beats 3 and 4, then rest five bars, repeating the exercise three times.

Perhaps it's the muscle memory of the chops, or you just need to find the sweet spot for your particular horn. Sometimes it can be equipment based, so you could also try alternate fingerings for it.

[Robert P]

[Dayton]

When you say that you "invariably miss" the A, do you mean that a note doesn't come out, or do you overshoot or undershoot it?

Can you play the A solidly if you slowly play F-G-A or G-A-B? If you can play the A under those conditions then the issue probably isn't with your horn, especially if it is otherwise in good mechanical condition.

I find two related issues often contribute to a challenge like this. First is hearing the note. It makes it much easier to play a note if you know what pitch you are trying to reproduce. Use a keyboard to get the pitch in your head. The Augie Haas exercise already mentioned (#3 from his book) is really useful, but a modification might be called for initially. If you are working on the A, for example, play a one or two octave A scale and then play the quarter notes as described in CTrumpeter's response. That way the sound of the A will be in your head.

Second is that notes in the upper register come closer and closer together in the harmonic series. You can play the G under that A 1&2 and the B over that A 1&2. So if you don't have a good sense of the pitch you are trying to play, it is quite easy to miss. You might already have encountered how close those partials are together if you've played out of a book of flexibility studies like Colin's "Advanced Lip Flexibilities" or Irons' "27 Groups of Exercises."

[JayKosta]

It might be valve alignment ...

Carefully play all the various valve combinations and LISTEN to the sound quality of the notes. If some combinations result in noticeable 'quality differences' then alignment might be off.

Each valve's alignment might be fine when only that single valve is used, but some multi-valve combinations might not.
Best valve alignment is finding the alignment that gives good results for all combinations - and that requires careful play testing and likely adjustments.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Richard III]

Bring out the tuner. Play the A and check. It is so common for that note to be quite off with some horn and mouthpiece combinations. When it is, that makes it much more difficult to play accurately. That's one of my checks for whether the mouthpiece works with that horn. Is it gap? Or is it just the architecture of the cup and throat/backbore? Not sure but once found, that A slots accurately and in tune.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

[jeirvine]

Could be the horn and/or mouthpiece. I spent a few decades as a one-Bb horn/mouthpiece guy (Bach 37, 1 1/4c), and I had always had occasional issues with D and E at the top of the staff. Not missing the notes necessarily, but having to be more deliberate in hitting them than I needed to for notes under or over them. Over the pandemic I went on a horn buying spree, and something of a mouthpiece safari. Now I know that it was something about that specific horn/mp combo, and the issue vanishes with others. It wasn't me! I now play that horn with a Curry 1.5c and it dances right over those notes.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37

[cheiden]

I think some folks struggle with A because it's naturally so out of tune. When you simultaneously tighten your chops to get above the staff you also intuitively try to pull down to correct the intonation. That's not always easy to do.

What's helped me is to play A with the 3rd valve which automatically makes it play lower. Either that or get into the habit of throwing out the first slide a good bit. It might take a while for you to stop over-compensating.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[prinmancz52]

Thanks for the great ideas. I think, with your help, I will figure this out!
_________________
Chuck

King Super 20 Silver Sonic Symphony (1965)
Reynolds Silver Bell and Lead-pipe 1938 Cornet

[Steve A]

[gwood66]

The lead part for April in Paris starts on A. We played it recently and if I was really focused I would clam the entrance. Treacherous is a good word to describe it.
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Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)

GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345

[chameleonj04]

I’m a comeback player after about 5 years of no playing. I always played off to the side of my chops on the right side and could play up to double G but I’ve had endurance issues with that setup. I’m thinking of changing my chops to be more centered in hopes of addressing the endurance issue. Any feedback on whether or not I should try this would be awesome. Thanks!
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Jazzman1204

[JayKosta]

[sd4f]

A soprano cornet trick to help with an A above the stave (D above top C on a Bb instrument) is to play it on third valve only. It may help, but it's a fickle note because it's close to other partials so sometimes these aids are more of a mental thing than physically making it easier.

I try to concentrate on getting the tongue position right and hearing the note, and as suggested above, work up to the note, and try to figure out what you're doing when you attack the note then, and work on replicating that when you take the instrument off your lips. Practicing without tonguing to initiate the note is also something worth working on. Long tones and lip flexibilities are also things to work on to strengthen your embouchure.

On initiating without the tongue, an exercise I've seen which I felt helped me was to start blowing for a few seconds, like as if you're about to play, but then initiating the note say 2-4 beats after, on a deliberate beat. Also, these exercises also work best when you work on being able to come in at a softer volume.

Maurice Andre, when he would get asked about how he is able to hit notes with excellent precision, his comment was that he spent 5 years to learn how to attack the note. So also prepare yourself for the long term.

The tl;dr of this is, you need to work on your muscle memory, to do everything you need to do, very consistently, so that the note is a reliable part of your range. Since note attack is a very wholistic thing (from your breath, tongue, lips and instrument pressure, basically everything), you need to work on figuring out what are you doing that is holding you back, and then work on improving that, and then making it an automatic and very relaxed approach.

[Cuso]

Could be the horn.
Could be the chops.
Could be between the ears.

When I was playing in the circus, there was a number where we had a 10-11 minute pause because the clowns were clowning around. Then the orchestra had to come in out of nowhere with a big chord for effect. I had a written high C#.

At the beginning of the season when I was fresh it was no problem, but after 2 months of 2 shows a day that C# got bigger and bigger in my head. As the chops got stiffer and stiffer, I was doing everything to set that #&%§' ing C# up: playing it sotto voce beforehand, scooping into it etc.

I'm sure every player whose ever sat in a pit somewhere waiting for an entrance has gone through this issue, so I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a friend who plays ask them to check your horn. Even the local repair shop probably has a person who can play an A and you'll see/hear if that's the problem.

I'm a "Restarter" myself and the last thing I want to do is start adjusting my setup just to improve my accuracy on individual notes. I'm not playing with the Chicago/Boston/New York Symphony Orchestra and if I fold on an entrance nobody is going to shoot me, but if you let stuff like this get into your head you'll be fighting an uphill battle which will set you back.

I myself practice Irons interval studies for confidence, and picking up the cold horn and hitting any chosen note. Set & hit, Set & hit, Set & hit. Works for me, maybe not for you.
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YTR 8335 LAS II
'72 Benge 3X
Couesnon Flugelhorn
Yamaha YTR-9820 Piccolo

[trickg]