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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back when the earth was still cooling I was in 9th grade and my private teacher told me that long tones were the secret, followed by lip slurs. I practiced obsessively back then and built a solid range, and by my junior year I had a high F or G just about any time I wanted it. My daily routine, outside of my band classes, was an hour of long tones, an hour of lip slurs, and another hour of scales and Arban's and stuff.

Long tones were a big part of my routine well through college and my brief professional career, but over the last 20-30 years I kind of got away from them since I wasn't playing professionally any more and my practice sessions have usually been hurried, squeezed in between other responsibilities. A couple of weeks ago I watched a Youtube video (audio only, actually) of Bill Chase giving a master class at a high school in 1973. He talked about long tones and how he would spend an entire practice session on one note, so much that his landlord banged on the door and shouted "don't you know any other notes?"

Anyway, I had an epiphany as to what I needed to get back to. For the last two weeks I've done about 20 minutes of very soft long tones with light pressure, starting on 2nd line G and working my way up and down only up to G on top of the staff. After that I go to the first page in Walter M. Smith's Lip Flexiblities and just work on the basics, again very soft and with minimal pressure, followed by Clarke #1 working out from the middle register and only going as high as I can go without pressing.

After two weeks I'm starting to feel young again, just by getting back to the basics. I allow my self a few minutes of crazy at the end of the week, and I'm happy to say that the long tone and basic fundamental practice is paying off. I have better focus, better tone, and all of my high notes are easier. I will continue working on my long-neglected fundamentals and practice more patiently.

So, short answer after a wall of text: long tones are very good for you.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years ago–likewise, back when the earth was still cooling–I heard a story about a trumpeter in Great Britain, who ventured out to make the most excellent sound/response/articulation possible (for him). He played 2nd line G...ONLY...FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!

I think his name was Johnny. One. Note.

All kidding aside...true story.
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. I just can't wait to get these implants done so I can see where I am, what I'm bringing to the table, & set up with some lessons based on a sound dental structure
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patdublc
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Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
Many years ago–likewise, back when the earth was still cooling–I heard a story about a trumpeter in Great Britain, who ventured out to make the most excellent sound/response/articulation possible (for him). He played 2nd line G...ONLY...FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!

I think his name was Johnny. One. Note.

All kidding aside...true story.


Jose Sibaja tells a similar story from his time studying with Gil Johnson. Jose was already an advanced player, but Gil had him play G only for a long period of time until he truly mastered the note. I don't exactly recall how long this went on, but I believe it was a month or so.
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deanoaks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's not really a simple answer to your question. High range is its own technique, and it's an advanced technique on the instrument. It requires a lot of specific amounts of effort and precision to play. This, and given the high amounts of pressure generally required for trumpet playing means that attempting to practice the high range in an isolated bubble can cause more problems and potentially cause injuries.

Learn to play the trumpet well and make a good sound in all registers of the instrument. The key to a solid high range is to have a solid grasp of trumpet pedagogy as a whole. There are of course exceptions to this and freaks of nature that can just figure out how to play high right away, but the odds that their initial approach to the upper register will be sustainable over a career are slim to none and eventually those players will need to rebuild from the ground up. Specifically I'm thinking of Wayne Bergeron's story, and yes I do acknowledge that extreme upper register careers are different than just generally having access to the upper register (I consider extreme upper register beginning at G/Ab above high C)

The only answer to high register is consistent practice and general mastery over the instrument and learning the most efficient way (for you) to approach the instrument. All of this said.. If you don't ever practice playing high, you will never be able to play high, but to approach the high range efficiently takes a lot of time and groundwork.
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Just_Another_Hack
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range is not a function of muscular power. It's a function of properly coordinating the jaw, teeth, tongue, and lips. High notes should not feel hard. They shouldn't require tons of air (very little air, actually). If it feels like work, something in your technique is off. I will say...the forward tongue is critical, and is typically what separates cats who make it look easy from everyone else.

Range is not built. You can't lip slur and long tone yourself into a consistent double C that sounds great. Range is discovered (accidentally or through experimentation), and then solidified through practice and repetition.

The good news is that you've already got the ability to play great high notes, today, right now. The bad news is that you just haven't figured it out yet, and you have been spending your valuable time on the wrong stuff trying to get there. Stop thinking about this as a fitness problem, and start thinking about this as an engineering problem.
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mograph
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try these:
- mentally imagine your "home" note as the C in the staff, or the E in the staff: consider that to be the middle of your range. Get comfortable with that note. If we think the G below those is our home note, then the higher G and above will seem harder.
- warm up by setting up on the horn, but blowing air only, then gradually bring the chops in to ease into a gentle buzz. Get to know that in-between state, and have patience. Be gentle. This is the beginning of what some call "whisper tones." If you've driven standard transmission, it's like finding the contact point of the clutch. Learn to love that transitional zone.
- in general, you might have to set up for higher notes than you normally do, then figure out how to get low notes at the "higher" setup. Of course, you would adjust this over time, as you get to know your own embouchure.
- use less mouthpiece pressure as you go up, but try to create a smaller aperture, and keep your corners strong. This comes with time.
- hear the high note first. Either play it on a keyboard or app, or play it down the octave first to set it in your mind. Hearing is essential to accuracy.
- work your way up, getting comfortable with your range as it develops.
- remember you're trying to expand your normal range, where you can play well and produce a good tone.

Hope that helps ... it works for me, at least. YMMV.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Range is not a function of muscular power. It's a function of properly coordinating the jaw, teeth, tongue, and lips. High notes should not feel hard. They shouldn't require tons of air (very little air, actually). If it feels like work, something in your technique is off. I will say...the forward tongue is critical, and is typically what separates cats who make it look easy from everyone else.


This is given by many players over and over. However, it really isn't true. If you are weak, you can't hold the lips together no matter how little air you are putting through. Players that teach this forget what feeling weak feels like. They think they are using very little strength due to having built it long before.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
... If you are weak, you can't hold the lips together no matter how little air you are putting through. ...

--------------------------------
True! the muscles that control and adjust the aperture setting (tension, size, position, etc.) do need to be exercised and developed in order for them to have the necessary strength and endurance. Also, an important part of the development is gaining reliable coordination when using those muscles.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. but like ANY exercise or drill, it's just as important (if not more) to be doing them properly. Not always WHAT you do but HOW you do it.

Long tones, lip slurs, flexibility, range - a caveat to everything.... exercises done with poor form will not produce good or beneficial results.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Prestage wrote:

In all honesty, for a player with a range limit around the top of the staff, questions about how to approach 'range building' are probably moot. Could you post a video (or at least audio) of your playing throughout your current range? It would really open up the possibilities for a productive discussion.

Mike


I´ll side with this!!!! Besides wanting to ask some questions:
1)Time elapsed since you began play the trumpet?
2)Ever had a teacher?

The reason for this is that I find your range somewhat restricted. In no way I want to discourage you - I sincerely want the best outcome to your efforts sensing that you´re struggling; genuinely wanting to "reach the stars".

If you keep doing this while still fighting for the G/A top of staff I can´t help thinking that you should benefit a lot from even a short stint with a teacher, on line or in person.
All the best and keep holding us updated!
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Just_Another_Hack
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Quote:
Range is not a function of muscular power. It's a function of properly coordinating the jaw, teeth, tongue, and lips. High notes should not feel hard. They shouldn't require tons of air (very little air, actually). If it feels like work, something in your technique is off. I will say...the forward tongue is critical, and is typically what separates cats who make it look easy from everyone else.


This is given by many players over and over. However, it really isn't true. If you are weak, you can't hold the lips together no matter how little air you are putting through. Players that teach this forget what feeling weak feels like. They think they are using very little strength due to having built it long before.


A baby has enough innate facial strength to close its lips tight enough such that no air can flow. High notes are not a strength problem. It is a lie to claim otherwise. Show me someone who thinks strength is the only way to access the upper register, and I'll show you someone who probably sounds terrible above the stave...if they can even get up there.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long tones...oh, my, where would I be without them ?

zaferis said it all, " long tones, lip slurs, flexibility, range ".

I would only add SCALES to the list.
George
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