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TheGecko251
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Joined: 15 Nov 2022
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Location: La -> Philly
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 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: todays squeaks are tomorrows notes (allegedly) |
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I've figured out this really neat squeak thing, I don't know quite how to describe it but I'm gonna try anyway.
Basically if I play super super soft, I do something with my lips and tongue so that I pop up a couple partials with no change to my airspeed (which yes, is counterintuitive to literally all literature on how to do this properly). Then I combine that with faster air and more of it to get it louder, and it turns into a note. I've found that this works with all my equipment but the best results are with my lead mouthpiece. Best of all, its as strenuous as playing in the staff, it feels normal.
I tried doing it with just a mouthpiece rn and I think it might have something to do with my aperture? It feels like I'm not so much buzzing as I am whistling if that makes sense, but through the mouthpiece, and then using the horn as an amplifier? Do any of you guys have any idea what could be happening? I realize this is hard to visualize without a video, maybe I'll make one later if it helps.
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Though I know next to nothing about teaching trumpet and embouchure I know who’s gonna post here and I can write all that posts. Have fun! |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: todays squeaks are tomorrows notes (allegedly) |
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| TheGecko251 wrote: | I've figured out this really neat squeak thing, I don't know quite how to describe it but I'm gonna try anyway.
Basically if I play super super soft, I do something with my lips and tongue so that I pop up a couple partials with no change to my airspeed (which yes, is counterintuitive to literally all literature on how to do this properly). Then I combine that with faster air and more of it to get it louder, and it turns into a note. I've found that this works with all my equipment but the best results are with my lead mouthpiece. Best of all, its as strenuous as playing in the staff, it feels normal.
I tried doing it with just a mouthpiece rn and I think it might have something to do with my aperture? It feels like I'm not so much buzzing as I am whistling if that makes sense, but through the mouthpiece, and then using the horn as an amplifier? Do any of you guys have any idea what could be happening? I realize this is hard to visualize without a video, maybe I'll make one later if it helps. |
How did you determine there's no change of the airspeed?
It has to do with the tissue around the aperture which is what's creating the sound, I consider fixating on the aperture which you can neither see nor directly gauge to be pointless. The aperture is going to do what it needs to do.
Post video.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:57 am Post subject: Re: todays squeaks are tomorrows notes (allegedly) |
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| TheGecko251 wrote: | | ... Basically if I play super super soft, I do something with my lips and tongue so that I pop up a couple partials with no change to my airspeed (which yes, is counterintuitive to literally all literature on how to do this properly). Then I combine that with faster air and more of it to get it louder, and it turns into a note. ... |
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Yes, doing 'something with lips and tongue' can arrange the lips to be able to vibrate at a different pitch - and by creating air flow thru the resulting aperture you can get the trumpet to respond.
For actual playing, the issue is whether that technique allows flexibility and good tone / intonation.
I'm interested whether you do anything regarding mouthpiece angle, or distribution of rim pressure on upper / lower lips. Also lip 'roll-in' / 'roll-out' / curl / pucker / track / etc.
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KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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Location: Levittown NY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:01 am Post subject: |
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No. A soft note is a note, a loud note is a note. A soft squeak is a squeak, a loud squeak a squeak. A squeak is not a note. If you can't connect all the registers smoothly , from below the staff to your top note with a good centered sound, your are not playing correctly.
Last edited by Al Innella on Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bethmike
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Playing (trumpet + mouthpiece) softly is beneficial. Keep making it a portion of your practice. But remember to still create a nice tone when you play softly.
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Doug Elliott
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| In many ways, soft and high are almost the same. Small aperture and almost no air needed. |
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kalijah
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | Quote: | | How did you determine there's no change of the airspeed? |
TheGecko251 may be referring to the blowing or exhalation effort, raising the air pressure. A common turn of a phrase among players and teachers is to refer to an increase in that action as an "air speed" increase.
Yes, one can play low tones to very soft high tones with little to no increase in the blowing effort. I think it is a useful introduction to the feel of these notes. Likely what the OP is describing. |
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mograph
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Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Quote: | | How did you determine there's no change of the airspeed? |
TheGecko251 may be referring to the blowing or exhalation effort, raising the air pressure. A common turn of a phrase among players and teachers is to refer to an increase in that action as an "air speed" increase.
Yes, one can play low tones to very soft high tones with little to no increase in the blowing effort. I think it is a useful introduction to the feel of these notes. Likely what the OP is describing. |
Makes sense. So if the blowing effort is the same, what would you say results in the pitch change? Aperture size plus mouth cavity size?
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kalijah
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | what would you say results in the pitch change? Aperture size plus mouth cavity size? |
Lip aperture posture. Generally, how firm the lip and muscular tissue, along with how much one is gently pressing the lips together.
Mouth cavity size is irrelevant to pitch but reducing it helps achieving the lip embouchure required to ascend. |
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Mike Sailors
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Elliott wrote: | | In many ways, soft and high are almost the same. Small aperture and almost no air needed. |
Bingo.
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mograph
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Joined: 17 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I'm finding that for much of what's going on inside there, what actually happens (e.g. airspeed increasing at the aperture) doesn't matter if I can't actually tell if it's happening. In other words, for some embouchure phenomena, if I can't measure it, I can't tell that it's happening, so I can't act on it.
I think that what really matters is what I think is happening, and what I can feel to be happening. It's all quite subjective, and so I think a good teacher needs to be able to describe the technique in more than one way to find the cognitions and sensations that get the job done for that specific student.
Yes, I get that there are some observable bad habits, like broadening a smile to go higher ... that's why I wrote "much."
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1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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