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trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5488
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: | Apart from the other comments, sometimes just placing your mouthpiece in just the wrong place (including slightly more or less lip than your used to) can have a profound effect on the whole system.
No experience with hernias but have experience with misplacing my mouthpiece placement for sometimes weeks. |
I think that there was a whole mixed soup and salad of stuff that went into creating this situation - call it the perfect storm.
I can tell you that without a doubt incorrect mouthpiece placement was an issue - the place that is the sorest is the left side of my upper lip. When I'm playing normally the pressure is not there - it's on my lower lip.
I've heard of other people experiencing this, and even saw it firsthand with an old friend and mentor of mine one time on a community band jazz band concert. He was playing lead and he had a total chops failure. I was on 3rd or 4th book that night and he asked me to step up and cover lead. This guy is a GOOD player too - if it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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spitvalve
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1992
Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck on your recovery.
I had a major chop failure in early 1990 when I was working on an MM at UNT. I totaled a car in an ice storm and had a whiplash injury. The doctor put me in a neck brace. I didn't play my horn for a few days and then went to resume my lesson teaching schedule, neck brace and all. The first lesson of the week I had a student who was struggling with a certain passage so I pulled my horn out of the bag to show her how it should be done--and all the air went shooting out of the left side of my mouth--I could not control the muscles on the left side of my embouchure and could not get a sound out of my horn.
The doctor said I had likely pinched a cranial nerve in the accident. Long story short, I had to lay off the horn for about six weeks, drop out of grad school for a couple of semesters, and work a regular job. I returned to school to finish my last year of coursework when I could play again, but never regained the right feeling in my chops and I completely folded halfway through my master's jazz recital--on the last tune I felt like I was just playing on skin and no muscle. It took years to get the sweet spot back--long after I left the music business.
Hopefully your recovery time will be shorter and allow you to keep bringing in extra cash!
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5488
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Spitvalve, that sounds like it was awful. I'm not anticipating a long recovery or a permanent change to my chops - I don't think it's going to be quite that bad.
With that said, Doug Elliot lives in the area here, and it might be a good idea to go see him to see if I can figure out some things with my chops - it's never too late, right? 
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2219
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Two weeks after major surgery? Are you crazy? |
I don't see this surgery as being major. Should I? |
I've had 2 hernia surgeries over the years.. one in the groin area and the other belly button - arthroscopic repair w/ mesh insert.
Two weeks, I was still very week, support wise.. I remember playing my first very easy (chop wise) USAF gig 3 weeks after, I had very little strength or endurance.. 6-8 weeks before I began to feel more like 100%.
Yeah... Not the chops.
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Just_Another_Hack
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Joined: 27 Feb 2023
Posts: 40
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Member is upset.
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Professional lower-split 3rd clarinet player.
Last edited by Just_Another_Hack on Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Just_Another_Hack wrote: | 1) Playing two weeks after abdominal surgery is likely the dumbest thing I've read YTD. So congrats on that.
2) Find a sub. REST. |
Have you personally experienced an abdominal surgery for an umbilical hernia?
I played two church services on drums the Sunday prior and had no issues whatsoever. Also, my surgeon didn't think it was dumb, and the literature says it's ok to resume normal activities as you feel you are ready.
I think it's possible I injured my upper lip practicing on Thursday working through the solo in Chicago "Beginnings." That solo (as transcribed) is a bit of a blow.
Prior to that everything was still fine.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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kehaulani
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:14 am Post subject: |
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You may have overdone it when practicing but, playing the devil's advocate:
"I played two church services on drums the Sunday prior and had no issues whatsoever. Also, my surgeon didn't think it was dumb, and the literature says it's ok to resume normal activities as you feel you are ready."
One doesn't play drums with abdominal support.
Playing trumpet is not a normal activity.
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | You may have overdone it when practicing but, playing the devil's advocate:
"I played two church services on drums the Sunday prior and had no issues whatsoever. Also, my surgeon didn't think it was dumb, and the literature says it's ok to resume normal activities as you feel you are ready."
One doesn't play drums with abdominal support.
Playing trumpet is not a normal activity. |
You use a lot more abdominal super playing drums than you might think.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Just_Another_Hack
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:57 am Post subject: |
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You know what? Keep doing what you're doing. That seems to be working great. In fact, throw in some sit-ups while you're at it.
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Just_Another_Hack wrote: | | You know what? Keep doing what you're doing. That seems to be working great. In fact, throw in some sit-ups while you're at it. |
Maybe I will. I've got 35+ years of playing and getting paid - everything from military band, brass quintet, Latin band, rock band, Big Band, concert band, orchestra, liturgical, and I'm a pretty fair drummer on top of that.
It seems to have worked out pretty well so far.
This was a rough spot and in hindsight maybe not a great choice. Do I think I'll get through it? Yes I do.
Also, I asked you a question a bit further up in the thread - you have not answered it.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Last edited by trickg on Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:15 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Vin DiBona
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:20 am Post subject: |
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trickg has been a valuable member here for many years.
He is taking some time off to heal and with that I suggest that we let him have the last word - if he so desires - and let's leave him be.
R. Tomasek |
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Vin DiBona wrote: | trickg has been a valuable member here for many years.
He is taking some time off to heal and with that I suggest that we let him have the last word - if he so desires - and let's leave him be.
R. Tomasek |
I appreciate that, but if someone else thinks they need to have the last word, so be it.
I would like to step back a minute though and talk about why I wanted to post this thread, along with the thought process behind why I went ahead and played the gig.
The main reason I started this thread is because although I'd never experienced it before, I've seen someone have a total chops meltdown firsthand, and I know some other people who have experienced it. When it happened to me, I was absolutely bewildered that it was happening to me. Part of the reasons for starting the thread was to show that it can happen to anyone under the "right" circumstances.
I'd like to also talk a bit about why I moved forward to play this gig 2 weeks after my surgery.
I've always healed fast and I've always been fairly healthy. I'm 52 years old but I don't carry myself that way because I have maintained a fairly healthy lifestyle, and I've always been the guy who just kinda pushes through and gets it done.
The main reason I didn't "get a sub," as Just_Another_Hack suggested, is because I WAS the sub. There are two guys who do most of the playing for this band and neither was available. I've played with this band before and they liked me, so they called me when their guys were not able to make the gig. One thing has been true all through my playing career - I'm not a flake. If I tell you I can play the gig, I'm going to play it. I'll show up on time, and I'm going to be as prepared as I can be. I have gained a reputation for dependability. I booked this gig before I booked the surgery.
The other reason I went ahead with it was because I legitimately thought it was going to be fine - I knew I may not play to the level I usually do, but I wasn't expecting a chops meltdown. Why would I expect that if it had never happened to me before? I started testing my playing about a week after my surgery date - it didn't seem to be an issue.
I don't know if playing this gig was a good thing or a bad thing in the eyes of the band. On one hand I didn't leave them having to look for yet another sub, essentially breaking my word to them that I'd do the gig. On the the hand, I didn't play worth a dang - I tried my absolute best and gave everything I had, but the performance itself came up short.
In any case, I think that this thread has some value. I can admit that playing a classic rock gig 2 weeks after hernia surgery wasn't a great idea, and it's something I won't repeat in the future should the circumstances present themselves again. It also shows the members of this forum that the right mix of bad circumstances can lead to a chops breakdown - call it preventative advice for others.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I thought I'd update this thread.
I played just a little bit over the lunch break today, just to see what might still be amiss - as of today it's been 5 days since I've played.
Nothing is amiss, apparently. Things felt maybe a bit tight, but nothing else seemed to be wrong. I had good sound and control over the range of the horn, good focus...
While I probably "could" play the upcoming gig on April 2nd, I think I'm still going to sit this one out. Just because I played ok for a few minutes doesn't mean I won't have a breakdown if I try to play more or longer, and I need to be sure that isn't going to happen. I can't hedge my bets on that in just a couple of days.
If I absolutely HAD to play the gig, I probably could, but since my buddy is already set to play it, I think I'll just let him have it.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Seymor B Fudd
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: |
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A wise decision!
BTW: You wrote "the right mix of bad circumstances can lead to a chops breakdown"
The other day I succeeded in bruising my upper lip when shaving - and an electric razor to that. No problems I thought but after practising I noticed a small swelling. Then out of the blue I wasked asked to sub tp 2 in a rather good big band. So off I went. Indeed a hard rehearsal. Arriving at home my wife said " your lip is bleeding....". Next day big swelling.
But that evening new rehearsal with my usual big band. Dance gig around the corner. Pulling out my trumpet I notice that I´ve forgotten my mouthpiece......Was forced to borrow a Bach 1 1/4 C from my section buddy, quickly finding that time has gone by. I played lead on a 1 1/4C during the 1970s early 1980s. No problems at all. But now....Well I managed, barely, but today - well I´ve been better-looking.
Take way; Mr Murphy is ever present and might hit at anytime.
And I should have stayed at home... 
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Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
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Trumpets:
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stuartissimo
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Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Seymor B Fudd wrote: | | Take way; Mr Murphy is ever present and might hit at anytime. |
I though the razor was Occam’s, not Murphy’s. 
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5488
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | Seymor B Fudd wrote: | | Take way; Mr Murphy is ever present and might hit at anytime. |
I though the razor was Occam’s, not Murphy’s. |
Interesting thought - now that I telework all the time because of COVID, I don't shave daily anymore.  
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Seymor B Fudd
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Ha! "explanations constructed with the smallest possible set of elements"? Talking about outdated Newtonian explanations.....Ever heard of chaos theory??
Mr Murphy has updated his tools. Today he´s a quantum mechanic working in all directions in infinite places at the same time in a seemingly random fashion (it isn´t ).
You just wait and see!
Ps not shaving daily? Might not serve your high register. I mean, Charlie Shavers. He shaved everyday.
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Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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