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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1918 Location: WI
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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That will go great with my new vehicle:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132082201546614963/
(The guy who sold it to me assured me it's a 'chick magnet'!) _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hi-lar-i-ous! |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1918 Location: WI
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Kennyg2019 wrote: | So...who is this American connection that will send out Taylor flugelhorns on trial? |
When I do a Yahoo search on "Taylor Trumpet dealers", the following comes up: http://www.thetrumpetshop.com/index.html
I am not sure what their trial policy is, though. Also, the site appears to have some stale information. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Rwwilson Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2019 Posts: 186 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have had a Benge 5 Flugelhorn for almost 50 years and still play it. I tend to think of it as having more of a french horn and less of a dark cornet sound. I've seen many posts about problems with these horns playing in tune but don't find that being a problem for me. It is so easy to bend the pitch that if you have the pitch in your mind it comes out of the horn. |
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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:21 am Post subject: |
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IDK who Andy's man is in the States but he posts on FB every Friday and answers questions. About a year ago he said he was looking for someone, and a couple months later said he'd found him. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7011 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Rwwilson wrote: | I have had a Benge 5 Flugelhorn for almost 50 years and still play it. I tend to think of it as having more of a french horn and less of a dark cornet sound. I've seen many posts about problems with these horns playing in tune but don't find that being a problem for me. It is so easy to bend the pitch that if you have the pitch in your mind it comes out of the horn. |
This was my experience in college stage band, back in 1980, when the band director brought in two brand new, consecutive numbed Benge 5s. It wasn't until the later 2000s that I played a couple of others. I still had the same mouthpiece I had purchased back in the day. These horns had terrible intonation. They were really unusable in any kind of ensemble. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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ConnArtist Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 2831 Location: La-la Land (corner of 13th and 13th)
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bill Blackwell"] shofarguy wrote: | ... I
But the mouthpiece even more so. Try a Flip Oakes Extreme mouthpiece in your size. Your horn will never sound warmer/darker. Contact him. I believe he still has some in stock. |
I second the Flip Oakes Xtreme! Makes my Wick 4 seem bright! I know OP is inquiring about the horn selection, but if open to mpc experimentation, this is as dark/warm as one can get, IMO _________________ "Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone tried the Inderbinden Wood?
I was wondering how big/warm-sounding it is compared to the Kanstul.
At $6K+ it should be REALLY warm. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7011 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Kennyg2019 wrote: | Has anyone tried the Inderbinden Wood?
I was wondering how big/warm-sounding it is compared to the Kanstul.
At $6K+ it should be REALLY warm. |
Back in 2013, Inderbinen came to NAMM and I had the chance to try the Wood. I did like it. I thought it was the best instrument they had at their display. I felt it was comparable to the darkest Adams, the Kanstul 1525 and even my Wild Thing flugelhorn. I think it has a fluffier sound than my WT or Kanstul's 1025. It has a lot of visual interest, too.
It had good response and intonation, from what I could tell in that environment. I would be proud to own one, if I were in the market for a horn in that price range. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9013 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:04 am Post subject: |
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What, pray tell, is a "fluffier sound", LOL? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Is there any consensus here about what a ‘warm’ flügel sound might be? I hear dark, fluffy and so on. BTW I don’t believe anybody is looking for a ‘cold’ sound out of a flügel. For me the sound of Roy Hargrove on his Wood flügel is not what I would call ‘dark’ and actually also not necessary as warm though the sound is beautiful. IMO more light and airy. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7011 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | What, pray tell, is a "fluffier sound", LOL? |
When the core is less defined by high frequency overtones; diffused. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:25 am Post subject: |
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When I've heard people use the terms, "fluffy" or "fluffier," I have gotten the impression that they are talking about overtones that are more diffuse, or basically a tonal profile that is "less dense," if that makes sense. When I've heard sounds that are way too "fluffy," they lose the characteristic core of the tone on which the overtones are built, to the point where it's diffuse from where the core would be to the outer extremities of overtones, or what we might expect to be there, anyway.
In contrast when I hear a really bright (but rich) trumpet sound, I recognize it as one that has core but also a consistent growth of overtones all the way to the bristles in the overtones to offset the core, which adds contrast to the total tonal experience. If I listen to Esteban Batallán of the CSO, I hear the full spectrum of trumpet sound...and it's amazing! If I want to hear something similar in the flugelhorn...well, I just imagine hearing Esteban Batallán playing flugelhorn! Hahahaha!!!!
But some like it fluffier... |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:35 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | Kennyg2019 wrote: | Has anyone tried the Inderbinden Wood?
I was wondering how big/warm-sounding it is compared to the Kanstul.
At $6K+ it should be REALLY warm. |
Back in 2013, Inderbinen came to NAMM and I had the chance to try the Wood. I did like it. I thought it was the best instrument they had at their display. I felt it was comparable to the darkest Adams, the Kanstul 1525 and even my Wild Thing flugelhorn. I think it has a fluffier sound than my WT or Kanstul's 1025. It has a lot of visual interest, too.
It had good response and intonation, from what I could tell in that environment. I would be proud to own one, if I were in the market for a horn in that price range. |
Can you give me some more details about how it compares to the Kanstul 1525? Is the sound as big and loud or more compact and soft? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9013 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. Probably the best definition of "fluffy" I've found is analogous to food: "light in texture and containing air".
"“Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.” ― Thelonious Monk
_________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Kennyg2019 wrote: | shofarguy wrote: | Kennyg2019 wrote: | Has anyone tried the Inderbinden Wood?
I was wondering how big/warm-sounding it is compared to the Kanstul.
At $6K+ it should be REALLY warm. |
Back in 2013, Inderbinen came to NAMM and I had the chance to try the Wood. I did like it. I thought it was the best instrument they had at their display. I felt it was comparable to the darkest Adams, the Kanstul 1525 and even my Wild Thing flugelhorn. I think it has a fluffier sound than my WT or Kanstul's 1025. It has a lot of visual interest, too.
It had good response and intonation, from what I could tell in that environment. I would be proud to own one, if I were in the market for a horn in that price range. |
Can you give me some more details about how it compares to the Kanstul 1525? Is the sound as big and loud or more compact and soft? |
The Inderbinden Wood is definitely more diffuse (fluffier) than your Kanstul 1525. Your flugel has a lot more distinct overtones, which will project easier (be louder) and will be easier for others to find your center of pitch...as well as you hear where the center of pitch is in order to tune to others. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="dstpt"] Kennyg2019 wrote: | Shawnino wrote: | Andy Taylor may not do returns but IIRC he has a person in the States who will ship horns out for trials.... |
Not sure who the person in the States would be. I guess you'd have to ask Mr. Taylor.... |
I see that Jamie's Trumpet Gallery is carrying some Taylor horns, so maybe she's his new US rep. |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1918 Location: WI
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:25 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | Is there any consensus here about what a ‘warm’ flügel sound might be? |
I think of it as being like shoes . . . _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9013 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:31 am Post subject: |
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_________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:03 am Post subject: |
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In all of this discussion about flugelhorn sound, mouthpieces and intonation, I'm a little bit surprised that no one has mentioned the leadpipe taper. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the french (or "Couesnon") taper makes a significant difference in both sound and intonation. Now that Kanstul is gone, getting a french taper leadpipe for any flugelhorn is problematic, and I don't think even the current incarnation of Couesnon makes horns that take the french tapered mouthpieces. It's possible that one of the B&S flugelhorns (maybe the FBX) ships with a french taper leadpipe, but I'm not certain about that, and I haven't seen them offered for sale as parts.
Also, the bottom-sprung valve clusters allow for a tighter wrap, which I feel influences the sound and intonation. Bottom-sprung valves and french taper leadpipes were the features of the F. Besson and Couesnon flugelhorns that defined the sound that, at least for this listener, makes for that classic warm, smoky jazz concept.
It would be nice if someone were to specialize in making leadpipes for flugelhorns similar to the Blackburn leadpipes for piccolo trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorns in particular, but in my opinion just about every flugelhorn would benefit from a french taper leadpipe/mouthpiece combination. |
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