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Tips/exercises for first note of entrance



 
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NJtrumpetplayer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:39 am    Post subject: Tips/exercises for first note of entrance Reply with quote

What type of exercises have you found helpful for ensuring that first attacks (i.e. start of phrase or excerpt) are solid, in tune, and repeatable? I've had some setbacks in this area lately, and hoping that I do not have the yips!
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long tones - they don't have to be especially long.

Just long enough that when you do make a good entrance to the note that you 'feel', 'learn', and 'habitualize' the mind / embouchure / air elements that went into it.
And then do the same thing several times in a row! - develop confidence.

A related item is to make the entrance 'on time' - not be 'delayed action'.
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Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, make sure you know what that pitch sounds like. That is particularly important as you get above the staff and the partials sit closer and closer together. For example, if you aren't confident of the pitch you are aiming for, instead of an Ab, you might wind up with a Gb or a Bb.

Second, as you practice technical studies, scales, intervals...do so with different attacks (air, tongued, k tongued, etc.), articulations (staccato, legato, marcato, etc.), and different dynamics. Don't limit this to the middle register. If there is a particular entrance that is challenging you, practice your technical studies in the same manner.

Third, don't be timid. Even for very soft and delicate passages, your entrance should still sound deliberate, not accidental. Related to this, know exactly when your entrance is. Timidness with entrances can sometimes be related to not being confident of precisely "when" you are supposed to play that first note.

Fourth, practice them like you'll play them. Stand up if you'll be standing; sit if you'll be sitting. Practice with the mute if your entrance is muted. Do the quick mute change if one is requited.

Finally, there are a number of good exercises specifically aimed at addressing these kinds of challenges. For example, Shuebruk's "Graded Lip Trainers" has a series of "attack" exercises starting on page 20 that can be really helpful.

Good luck!
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJtrumpetplayer wrote:
repeatable


This is the key word. People often think that the # of correct attempts leads to repeatability, but that's not the case. It is consistency and repeatability of approach that leads to consistency and repeatability of product. If you are constantly changing the ingredients (how you set up, how you breathe, how you hold your lips, where your tongue is etc) then your product has a lower chance of being what you want it to be, every time. So, work consistency of your "swing" and you'll give yourself a better chance at consistency of where the ball is going.

Dayton wrote:
Third, don't be timid. Even for very soft and delicate passages, your entrance should still sound deliberate, not accidental. Related to this, know exactly when your entrance is.


Great advice. I often tell students, "try to miss the next entrance" and they will end up nailing it almost 100% of the time. Why? Because they were playing uninhibited. Also giving yourself timing before hand is useful: I sometimes do 1, 2, 1234 in my head before I come in during practice especially during certain excerpts.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been getting good results using octave intervals. Slow tempo, whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, two measures each. Attack each note separately. Make sure you play each two measure sequence cleanly before moving on to the next measures. Change down a half-step and repeat.

I start on second line G and play down an octave using the open fingering. With F# I use 2nd valve for the low note, and so on. I pay attention to the sound of the "ghost notes," developing good resonance and intonation. I find the embouchure set that allows me to play both notes without any major change between octaves. This is important.

After descending through seven valve combinations, I start again on low C#, adding the octave above, i.e. low C#-peddle C#-low C#-fourth space C#-low C#. I play quarter notes at 50-60bpm. I make sure to play this pattern four consecutive times cleanly before ascending to the next valve combination. I play all the valve combinations, ending at G.

The object is to hear each octave and gain an accurate, repeatable attack on each note. It requires good breath support technique, rather than relying on embouchure manipulation to get the pitches. Repeating the notes and exercise each day builds in muscle memory over time.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine the sound before/during/after you play.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Imagine the sound before/during/after you play.

------------------
This is vital, because your prior practicing that included 'imagining' the sound has (should have) built a conditioned reflex of correct fingering, embouchure, air, etc.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adapt to the range you are comfortable playing.


Link

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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but I don't have a problem if the note is blastissimo, accented and the like. My problem occurs when I can't begin a Mezzo Forte note or quieter without a slight delay from tonguing and sounding the note.

My remedy is beginning a note without the tongue. At first, it's air moving into a tone. As I refine it, it immediately begins with tone-no wind gap. You have to have your target pitch firmly in mind.

Then, I can begin using various types f tonguing with the same sensitivity. Sometimes, depending on the "attack", it's effective, not to think of tongue-pause-tongue, rather to think of it as being one long tone interrupted briefly with a flick of the tongue, keeping air and support continuing through the passage.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Tips/exercises for first note of entrance Reply with quote

NJtrumpetplayer wrote:
What type of exercises have you found helpful for ensuring that first attacks (i.e. start of phrase or excerpt) are solid, in tune, and repeatable? I've had some setbacks in this area lately, and hoping that I do not have the yips!

This is a struggle I've had as well. And it's gotten a lot better since I made "practicing first notes" an important part of my daily practice.

The book that helped me the most in this area is Special Studies for Trumpet by John Daniel. Another helpful book is Lip Trainers for Trumpet by Richard Shuebruk.

Mike
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have what I call a "first note drill" with students...

as mentioned before in this thread, being conscious of the the "swing" - the setup, and hearing the tone before it's played.

with a metronome set at a slow pace, like mm=60, counting in measures of 6 or greater, you play an articulated full quarter note on 1, then the mouthpiece off of the face (so you have to reset), then you do your normal prep repeat, playing the next note on 1 again... Starting in a comfortable range expanding up and down, any pattern you like (scales, random, current music, etc) Do this for a couple minutes.
You're practicing a series of first notes, timing them with an outside source of time.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Imagine the sound before/during/after you play.


Oh, yes, that is the best advice of all.
George
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tomba51
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
I have what I call a "first note drill" with students...

as mentioned before in this thread, being conscious of the the "swing" - the setup, and hearing the tone before it's played.

with a metronome set at a slow pace, like mm=60, counting in measures of 6 or greater, you play an articulated full quarter note on 1, then the mouthpiece off of the face (so you have to reset), then you do your normal prep repeat, playing the next note on 1 again... Starting in a comfortable range expanding up and down, any pattern you like (scales, random, current music, etc) Do this for a couple minutes.
You're practicing a series of first notes, timing them with an outside source of time.


Great advice!
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Jason Rogers
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:17 pm    Post subject: All of the above!!!!...Plus... Reply with quote

Make sure you are using the correct equipment...
I used to think that a Bach 5C mouthpiece was right for me based on a teacher's suggestion...however, I had issues with consistency of attack...splat tones...whatever you want to call inaccuracy....I worked diligently on most of the excellent advice listed above...with futile results.

After a paradigm shift and trial and error....I found that a Bach 1.5 C allowed me to set my embouchure for the precision I needed....that was my personal journey and solution...may not be yours...the lesson? ....sometimes teachers are wrong.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: All of the above!!!!...Plus... Reply with quote

Jason Rogers wrote:
Make sure you are using the correct equipment...
...

----------------------------------
Can you elaborate about the playing and 'feel' differences you experienced between the the 5c and 1.5c -
e.g.
fit and comfort on your lips & teeth
sound quality and range (aside from initial attack)
anything specific about the rim shape and size differences between them
do you have some sort of 'hidden physiology' that is involved

I certainly agree that using 'appropriate equipment' is necessary, and that doesn't always mean 'what works for a lot of other people'.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuff that could be helpful:

Set up exercise; https://youtu.be/iwR7EW6v2Fg
May help reduce the number of inconsistent variables before the first note is played.

Practice initial attacks;

Franquin, Methode Complete. Explanation starts on page 85. Exercises start on page 115. You might be able to find a PDF by Geoffrey Shamu that provides a translation and comments for how to practice this section of Franquin. The complete method is available from qPress.

Frances Bodet, daily Exercises Available from qPress. Further explores attacks in different registers and dynamics and relates the attack to long tones and slurs. Challenging.

R. Shuebruk Lip Trainers for Trumpet all about the initial attack. Loud, soft, intervals. Wide variety of challenges. Most of us have seen/used #2 in the second section. But there’s gold in every section.

Quality Tones App https://apps.apple.com/us/app/quality-tones/id1039653288
Randomized application of attack challenges. You can adjust settings to keep the challenges in your do-able range and expand the challenges as you improve.

Ryan Beach on first attacks: https://youtu.be/rELU_r0yQ-8
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also found it helpful to give a rhythm to what you're doing. Instead of randomly sucking in air and blowing it out, make the intake and outtake all equal beats and start the note exactly in the down beat.

Hard for me to articulate but it's simply (example): count two beats while inhaling and immediately, when the breath completes the imaginary cycle, two beats on the exhale.
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3bflat
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
I have what I call a "first note drill" with students...

as mentioned before in this thread, being conscious of the the "swing" - the setup, and hearing the tone before it's played.

with a metronome set at a slow pace, like mm=60, counting in measures of 6 or greater, you play an articulated full quarter note on 1, then the mouthpiece off of the face (so you have to reset), then you do your normal prep repeat, playing the next note on 1 again... Starting in a comfortable range expanding up and down, any pattern you like (scales, random, current music, etc) Do this for a couple minutes.
You're practicing a series of first notes, timing them with an outside source of time.


I really like this idea. I tried it with metronome set to 60 bpm with 12 beats in a measure and worked on long tones at same time as attacks. Attack, hold for 12 beats, rest/reset for 12 beats and repeat.
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