Questions for trumpet repairmen

[dwgib]

Hi,
I have a couple vintage trumpets that need repair, lead pipes in particular. I'm well aquainted with soldering, tube cutting, etc. My problem is these lead pipes had particular tapers when originally made, how do repairmen match those tapers? Or do they just install a modern leadpipe that may or may not have a different taper?

I also have at least one trumpet that has a missing post between the bell and lead pipe. It's a straight brace post (1930's Conn). It has the base on both sides, but not the post itself with sculpted ends. Is there a source for similar posts or does it need to be made from a piece of brass?

Last question, I have a couple horns missing the stop rod guides, usually the type with 2 diamond shaped ends that wrap the tube and the guide itself pretty much just a piece of brass with a hole for the rod or the whole piece is folded to make a guide hole with 2 diamond shaped wings to attach to the tube. Is there a source for these? Some are missing the rods also, but i think I can make those and I found a source for the nuts and rod end nut(when they have that)

Any and all help, suggestions, links, contacts appreciated. I'm really interested in the lead pipe replacement quandary bc I'd rather, if not outside my means, restore the horn to the original sound/play and different lead pipes would make a big difference on that, especially the Holton's, seems they changed the lead pipe taper for every horn, not sure about others because I've not seen data on them.
If too expensive to duplicate originals, I guess I'll have to settle for what replacements are available, no sense spending $500 on a horn that only worth $300.
_________________
Conn Military Spec(1932)
Conn 22B(1924;1941)
Conn Director 14B(1955)
Conn model 26B(1921)
American Knight Deluxe(1941)
Pan American Trumpet Model 66B(1931)
King Liberty(1925-30)
Martin Imperial(1964)
Tonk Sterling(1920)
H.B.Jay Columbia(1919)

[LittleRusty]

Maybe find inexpensive donor/parts horns for some?

[dwgib]

[LittleRusty]

Some techs have stashes that they can scavenge parts from. Someone might offer to assist.

Also over the years Allied has been mentioned on here as a resource.

[gord-o]

It's rare for me to work on a horn that people really care about matching tapers, vintage specs, so take my words with a grain of salt. I deal with parents who are more concerned with the repair bill. If I had to replace a vintage leadpipe I start with the generic Allied pipe, get the receiver to fit with a gap that is good with the mouthpiece that came with the trumpet, then cut the length. Old Conns are different, no gap. Small bore horns are hard to match.

The post between the braces is just a brass rod, available from the hardware store.

The last question, you would need a donor horn.
_________________
Richard Hastings
Brass and Stringed Instrument Repair,
Popplers Music

[jeirvine]

There are techs that can clone the original lead pipe, but that may be more than you'd want to spend. Charlie Melk replaced a 30's Olds leadpipe in raw brass for me for $275.
_________________
1937 The Olds
1940 Olds Super
1945 Buescher 400 225
1949 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 239
1991 Stomvi Elite Piccolo
1996 Bach 37

[dwgib]

[jeirvine]

At least for Olds there are some techs that specialize in refurbishing and restoring older horns (e.g. Rob Stewart, Melk), and they have the specs of the various pipes, and know either how to make new, or know which replacements are comparable. But my (not first hand) understanding is that it is fairly easy to test fit a leadpipe and try it out without fully installing it.
_________________
1937 The Olds
1940 Olds Super
1945 Buescher 400 225
1949 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 239
1991 Stomvi Elite Piccolo
1996 Bach 37

[Divitt Trumpets]

[dwgib]

[Halflip]

[Divitt Trumpets]

[gord-o]

I haven't bought the Allied generic pipe in a while, but I would guess it sells for about $60 now. Like Divitt Trumpets said, it isn't a bad lead pipe, it's not extreme, it works with a lot of different horns. It's a long lead pipe, so you can get the Venturi size right and expand the large end if you need to make it fit to outer tuning slide tube. I think that Badger State repair sells some some different lead pipe tubes, and I think they are made by M/K Drawing And Bending.
_________________
Richard Hastings
Brass and Stringed Instrument Repair,
Popplers Music

[dwgib]

Thanks, lots of good thoughts. If the price for that Allied generic really is that low at $60, that makes a big difference vs $215+ just for the part and an acceptable replacement vs cost/benefit. The 2 trumpets I currently need to replace the leadpipe on both are just a short section of tubing between the mouthpiece receiver and a tuning slide receiver. So short (5" or so) that I at first considered replacing it with just a short piece of tubing, but was worried about how that would affect it's play.

I wish the websites for Allied and https://badgerstatesupply.com/index.php?pg=catalog allowed you to look at their catalogs. Never understood why companies do that. Badger doesn't even have a sign up page, just a log in, and Allied requires a sales tax id number just to sign up.
_________________
Conn Military Spec(1932)
Conn 22B(1924;1941)
Conn Director 14B(1955)
Conn model 26B(1921)
American Knight Deluxe(1941)
Pan American Trumpet Model 66B(1931)
King Liberty(1925-30)
Martin Imperial(1964)
Tonk Sterling(1920)
H.B.Jay Columbia(1919)

[Divitt Trumpets]

[dwgib]

[kevin_soda]

I think it's important for us all to accept that there's nothing practical about this type of endeavor. It's a labor of love. There's no rational way to justify the cost because it would almost always outweigh the monetary value. I only say this because money is a factor in the decision making process and everyone has a different appetite or opinion on what things are "worth." A big part of the value in the process is the enjoyment of the work and the satisfaction with the completed product. So, if "the right part" costs more than the horn is "worth" it shouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker.
_________________
Kevin

[dwgib]

[Divitt Trumpets]

You can always buy from public facing companies like mouthpiece express or Dawkes.

Anyone who buys quality products is ok to repair them. It's the people trying to pay as little as possible and getting new trumpets for $50 who prefer to just buy another.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets

[Halflip]