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EVGs = Ergonomic Valve Guides by Jacob Hoskins


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jkarnes0661
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to try these out for my Schilke S42. This is the main horn I use for commercial/lead work and though I love the sound and efficiency of the horn, I've never loved the valves. Nothing specifically wrong with them, they never stick or anything, but the best adjective I can come up with for them was they always felt or sounded a little "sandy". Probably my least favorite valves out of all of my horns. From my perspective, this was no reflection on Schilke since I bought this horn used and I have a Schilke G1L4 that has fantastic valves.

After reading about these and watching Jake's video, it made me wonder if the "sandy" feeling was from the springs rubbing inside the barrel of the valve. I ordered a set of three EVGs from Bajoc Music's website. Turned out Jake happened to be coming through Grand Rapids where I live today so he actually dropped them off at my house, great to meet him and chat with him for a couple minutes.

The kit is very well put together with everything clearly labeled and laid out. I dropped them into the horn this afternoon after reviewing Jake's installation video and they are frankly amazing. Valves are quieter and most importantly, the feel is buttery smooth. Reminds me of the valves on my Getzen flugel which are probably my favorite valves out of all of my horns.

One of my concerns was how the kit would affect valve alignment. I don't have a borescope but I did a quick visual check on the first and second valves both before and after installation. From the visual inspection I definitely needed to use the down-stroke spacers from the kit (I have no way of seeing the up-stroke alignment but I installed the up-stroke spacers from the kit as well). More importantly, I played through a couple of the bigger numbers from a theater show I'm playing this spring and didn't notice any squirrely notes like I would expect if the valve alignment were off. I'd still like to have a PVA check done by a good tech sometime but at least from the mouthpiece side of the horn, everything feels the same.

I would definitely recommend these to anyone who has a horn they play and like but has that "sandy" feel to the valves!
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Bájoc Music
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Joined: 06 Jan 2023
Posts: 45
Location: Portland, MI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

It's been a while since I have posted any updates on Bájoc Music and the Ergonomic Valve Guides. I just want to let you all know that there are new brands available for Bájoc EVG compatibility! We have:

    B&S — All Challenger I/II and X-Line Series Trumpets, Cornets, and Flügelhorns (only Model 3145)
    B.A.C. Custom — Any Artist, Handcraft, or Custom Series B.A.C. trumpet with Besson-India type valves only
    Besson — Sovereign & Prestige Series Cornets and Tenor Horns [post-2011]
    Jupiter XO — 1600I, 1602[LTR], 1604, 1624, 1700
    UMI – King ("Silver Flair" [2055], "Legend" (2020, 2070), 2220SP, 1117, "System Blue" Series) & C.G. Conn (“Vintage One” [1B, 1B50C, 1FR], 51B, 52B)


I am hoping to have EVGs available for S.E. Shires and Stomvi valves very soon. For Martin (Committee & Imperial), Benge (Burbank, L.A., UMI), and other older brands of valves, I'll need to redesign a new EVG top ring that will make the EVGs compatible for older valves with spring barrels that have an O.D. of roughly ~.500". TBD...

That's it for now, stay tuned for more future updates. Take care!

Best,

Jacob Hoskins, Proprietor
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JSco
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All, not a paid promotion... My main horn has been a Getzen Eterna that was broken in when I got it, and has my favorite valve block I've ever tried. It's like that pair of favorite shoes that no matter how you wear them, they fit like a glove. So when it comes to trying other horns, that's my standard. I'm also a bit obsessive about spring noise--it drives me crazy.

I just installed my EVGs today on my brand new Schilke HC2 and wow--it's a pretty crazy transformation! No spring noise at all, and the feel of the valves is totally smooth. For some reason I couldn't get these valves to feel right to me after trying different things. The EVGs got the job done for me and then some.

If you're unhappy with your valve action, the EVGs are a no brainer and are very affordable.

Here's a video that compares the EVG to the factory valve setup:

https://youtube.com/shorts/7xB-ddlNdaE
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely agree with whoever said upthread that this is a solution looking for a problem. If this thing would prevent intonation issues or red rot, well, then we would be in business

EDIT: I can only speak for my horns, of course.

The Bajoc horns look nice and seem to stylistically take elements form the 1970s Bach and Yamahas such as the finger hooks and combine them with modern elements. Nice.
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JSco
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I disagree with the thought that it's "a solution in search of a problem." If you dig into how Jake developed the idea, it was in response to customers of his who paid top dollar for valve jobs, but then still had issues with the valve guides and springs not functioning properly within the valve casing (i.e. rubbing against the inner casing structure). This suggests that there are problems that can't be solved by a valve alignment; hence the EVGs.

Would I install this on every trumpet I own? No. Is it a magic bullet that solves every issue with trumpets, applicable across all makes and models? No.

Is it a very creative design? Heck yeah. The outer spring design is sandwiched between two washer shaped o-rings which completely eliminates the bounce of the up and down spring movement and perfectly centers the upstroke and downstroke. For ~$100 that can be self-installed, that's a pretty cool invention IMO.
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a month with no activity here.

First, I want to praise Jacob for his very prompt responses and customer service.

My experiment with my Kanstul 1525 met mostly with success, but not quite in the intended way. Jacob is probably annoyed with me, but he shouldn't be. Let me explain.

My initial goal was to try to get valves that were quieter. My Kanstul clunks pretty loudly and that's not great for recording. After my experience, I don't think there is any question that the EVGs have the potential to improve the valve noise for your horn.

So what happened? I watched and watched the video but still managed to install at least one upside down. A piece of one 3D-printed 'dogbone' valve guide broke off. Jacob immediately replaced it and added a spare. He told me this was the first time anyone had broken one. So, I'm the lucky winner, and it probably is my mistake that it happened. I cleaned the horn to make sure I had no more little black plastic pieces anywhere.

During the test, I was amazed how much faster my valves performed with the outer springs. I LOVE the outside springs!! They rebound faster than the valves did with stock springs inside the valve.

I'm not willing to give that up, so I removed the plastic 'dogbone' pieces and reinstalled the original brass valve guides, but kept the upper and lower machined rings that came with the EVG kit, which hold the new outside spring securely. I've been using this setup with success for several weeks now. Is it quiet? No, but it's no worse than it was before, and the valves are much more fun to play.

So, the bottom line here is that I think I will wait to see what Jacob comes up with next, but I think he is on to something good here. I am very grateful for the improvement in my horn, even if it wasn't quite what he intended. I think we should encourage him to continue developing his system.

And remember, if I'm the only one who broke one, it may work just great for you. It IS quieter with his dogbone valve guides, and perhaps your valves could be faster if you now have inside-sprung valves.
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Bájoc Music
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Joined: 06 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone! I am now getting a chance to sit down this morning and post a reply/update—I apologize for the delay.

Thank you very much Riojazz for your kind words, it really means a lot.

I am hoping to further improve the designs of each brand of EVG dogbone (if needed), starting with the brands that have the highest rating of rotational alignment deficiency/inefficiency from OEM valve guide assemblies (this can be quite contradictory for each player and their own horn).

I sent you an email Riojazz this morning in hopes of chatting sometime about the noise coming from your Kanstul valves. It has definitely piqued my interest and I would hope to be able to solve this mystery, if possible. I look forward to hearing from you, Riojazz!

If anybody is looking to reach out to me with questions or comments pertaining to the EVGs, I am usually pretty quick with responses via text or sometimes email—depending on if I am busy with work. Go to the link below for ways to contact me:

https://bajocmusic.com/connect/

Now, regarding updates: I am currently in the process of designing EVG dogbones for Stomvi valves and should hopefully have that finished soon in the next few weeks, if not sooner. I am still on the lookout for anyone who would be willing to let me borrow their S.E. Shires for a couple of days so I can measure and analyze the essential components and create an EVG dogbone design for S.E. Shires valves. That is TBD at the moment...

MORE EVG updates: I have just completed prototyping a new top ring design that will allow for the EVGs to be installed on older trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn valves with smaller OD spring barrels—such as Martin, Benge, older C.G. Conn, older Holton, etc. The only thing I would need to do is design the EVG dogbones for these brands.

I am hopeful that I can get the v2 EVG top rings put into manufacturing and have them readily available in the future, but...I would like to hear from you all whether that is of interest to you or not. This would give me a general idea of whether or not I should set it as a priority to invest the time and $ in having these v2 EVG top rings made.

That's all for now! More updates to come with the EVGs and other things at Bájoc Music soon—mouthpieces, Harmonic Waterkey Plugs, etc. (that will be for other forums/posts, of course).

—Jacob
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

I thought I would share the most recent news/update here on what is currently taking place with the Bájoc Ergonomic Valve Guides, in case you have not seen my latest content on social media platforms.

I have finally released EVG dogbone designs that fit the EVGs for the following valves:
    • S.E. Shires valves
    • Stomvi valves, and
    • F.E. Olds new-style valves and old-style valves!

Not to mention, I have updated all x16 plus x2 other (the other x2 EVG dogbones are Benge and Martin, but are not openly available to the public yet due to the spring barrel design not allowing for the current EVG top ring) dogbone designs to better fit the EVGs to the overall piston assembly—tight clearances between the spring barrel tracks and the guiding dogbone pieces (i.e. tighter rotational alignment, as needed or as possible); improved dogbone dimensions to better overall dogbone structure & durability, as well as fitting to the casing; and to make installation easier for the user.

Here is the Bájoc EVGs link for your convenience:

https://bajocmusic.com/bajoc-ergonomic-valve-guides-evgs/

That is some of the news that I have available right now! I have been working away on other side projects like mouthpieces (currently have the Bájoc Personal model mouthpieces available in silver-plated brass...might do a discount sale for the mouthpieces, who knows?) and written blog content for viewers and readers 🙂

I have been working on trumpets as people continue to send them my way, but it is my trying to find the time to work on them that is tough currently— along with everything else happening at Bájoc right now! But I love it all 😊

That is it for now! Feel free to reach out to me via email (found at https://bajocmusic.com/connect/) or here with any questions, comments, or feedback. Thank you all!


Best,

Jacob Hoskins
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got a nice personal note from Jacob. He is solving the slight rotational alignment problem and I'm looking forward to trying the new dogbone design. His customer service remains outstanding.

ps "dogbone" is not in the dictionary so spell check continues to think I meant 'dogbane', whatever that means.
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning folks!

I wanted to share some news and a minor update for you all. I decided last minute that I am going to be attending ITG this year in Minneapolis, Minnesota! I have been running around getting EVGs (all currently available brands & x1 NEW brand!), Harmonic Waterkey Plugs, Bájoc mouthpieces, and my prototype piccolo and Bb trumpet for people to try.

I have been prioritizing R&D for the EVGs for the last several months, but I have been working up prototype models of mouthpieces as I go along. The HWPs have also been turning out to be a big success, as well! Jens Lindemann has both the EVGs and an HWP installed on his "CANCER BLOWS" Yamaha YTR-6335HS-II (you can see in this short clip down below):

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CscLqVbg1DJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

For the new brand of EVGs that just got developed...we now have EVGs available for Spiri-made valves (daCarbo, etc.)!

I will be bringing all of these things with me to ITG tomorrow. Just look around for a 6' 1" tall guy with a black long-sleeve shirt that has "Bájoc Music" printed on the back. I would love to meet and chat with you!

Take care, and I hope you all have a happy Memorial Day weekend.


Best,

Jacob Hoskins
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm happy to give a positive update. The new EVGs for my Kanstul flugel work great.

The pictures Jacob sent to make the installation clearer really helped. I just played a concert with these modifications and the valves worked very well. They are quieter than before, and faster than before due to the outside springs. The slight rotational alignment problem with the first set I bought is much better now.
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress report. Several concerts in and the performance is still excellent.
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riojazz wrote:
Progress report. Several concerts in and the performance is still excellent.


Good morning all,

Thank you for your great feedback and kind words about the Ergonomic Valve Guides! I am pleased to hear and see that the EVGs have been helping many people with their valve action issues—whether folks had problems with their valves, or simply wanted to further improve their valve action.

I did have an opportunity to meet several folks at ITG 2023 in Minneapolis and made many great connections. Thank you all for taking the time to stop by the booth and say hello!

Now...I have been working away at refining and revising the dogbone and top ring designs in order to make the EVGs available for older brands of valves: Martin (Committee, etc.), Benge (Burbank, LA., and UMI), Henri Selmer (pre and post-K-Modified), C.G. Conn (with double-wing valve guide design before mid-1930s), Holton (with double-wing valve guide design during early 1900s), and some others. These EVGs will be additional options available in the Bájoc Ergonomic Valve Guides "lineup" very soon.

Additionally, I am working away at making the EVGs more readily available for Besson (Prestige and Sovereign) cornets and tenor horns. I am hoping within the next couple of months I will have more EVG sets made where they can fit nicely into the current production cornets (been getting a LOT of front-row brass band players asking about wanting to improve the valve action on their cornets).

Besides all things EVGs, I am hoping to be introducing more Bájoc brass mouthpieces soon on my website. Slow and steady, yes. But, the end results will be worth it!

Thank you all again for your support and kind reviews, and have a great rest of your day. Take care!


Best regards,

Jacob Hoskins
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious about your Harmonic Water Key Plug. I see a choice of sizes and brands, but is there any choice in color? I would use it on silver plate horns.
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riojazz wrote:
I'm curious about your Harmonic Water Key Plug. I see a choice of sizes and brands, but is there any choice in color? I would use it on silver plate horns.


At the moment, I have been offering the plugs in just the raw brass finish…buuuut, I don't see why I couldn’t have a few plugs sent out for silver or gold plating—if folks would prefer that option being available

I do have access to a plating machine where I could quickly plate some plugs, and I wouldn’t charge extra to do that. I probably would have to raise the retail price a few bucks or so though if I had to send the plugs out for plating at Anderson’s or Tanury Plating or something. If people would desire that as being a secondary option for the waterkey plugs, I would be happy to consider making that available.


Best regards,

Jacob Hoskins
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

It has been a while since I have posted any updates here about the Bájoc Ergonomic Valve Guides. I will start by saying that the EVGs are now back in stock on my website with more options made available! 😁

https://bajocmusic.com/bajoc-ergonomic-valve-guides-evgs/

After ITG this year, I have been working away at fine-tuning the EVG rings and revising the designs to better allow the rings to fit onto the listed brands of valves that are EVG-compatible. Not to mention, I have also been introducing more brands that are now EVG-compatible.

After the revisions of the original top ring design, as well as developing a new top ring design made to fit onto older valves, I can finally announce that the EVGs are now officially available for Besson (Prestige & Sovereign) cornets and tenor horns; Martin (Committee, Imperial, etc., ); and Benge (LA., and UMI...Burbank is coming soon)! EVGs might become available for Henri Selmer and C.G. Conn, but I will wait to hear from folks on whether or not there is a big want for EVGs on these types of valves—that being Henri Selmer and C.G. Conn.

Thank you all who have been presenting me with suggestions and ideas to help make the EVGs better, and more importantly to help achieve the goal of offering a quality product that will make players' pistons actuate smoother and more consistent than ever before.

Have a great rest of your days folks, and take care!


Best regards,

Jacob
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johnplaysbrass
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jacob, I'm interested in getting a couple of sets for my trumpet and cornet. I have a couple of questions;

1. My Besson Sovereign has pads in the button cap so I was wondering how that would work with your design. Do you provide a set of thicker pads as replacements or additional pads that go on the bottom of existing pads?

2. Do you provide international shipping? I'm based in New Zealand.

Thanks
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Bájoc Music
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnplaysbrass wrote:
Hey Jacob, I'm interested in getting a couple of sets for my trumpet and cornet. I have a couple of questions;

1. My Besson Sovereign has pads in the button cap so I was wondering how that would work with your design. Do you provide a set of thicker pads as replacements or additional pads that go on the bottom of existing pads?

2. Do you provide international shipping? I'm based in New Zealand.


Thank you for your message, johnplaysbrass! To answer your questions:

1) I do have EVGs available for Besson (post-2011) Sovereign and Prestige cornets and tenor horns. Both Sovereign and Prestige model cornets and tenor horns from Besson use the same type of internal-sprung valve guide and piston design. The OEM Besson valve guide design I am referencing looks like this:



The EVGs come with alignment felts for both the upstroke and downstroke. In the case of the downstroke, the alignment felts are fitted into the underside of the finger button. These new felts replace the OEM felts in order to properly align the piston vertically.

2) I do provide international shipping, yes. As we speak, I am packing up a set of J. Meinlschmidt EVGs and some Harmonic Waterkey Plugs to be shipped out to the UK. Once I receive your order, I will have it prepped and ready for delivery the next business day.

I hope this helps, thank you all.


Best regards,
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GizB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bájoc Music wrote:
EVGs are now officially available for Besson (Prestige & Sovereign) cornets and tenor horns; Martin (Committee, Imperial, etc., ); and Benge (LA., and UMI...Burbank is coming soon)! EVGs might become available for Henri Selmer and C.G. Conn, but I will wait to hear from folks on whether or not there is a big want for EVGs on these types of valves—that being Henri Selmer and C.G. Conn.


Don't forget Kanstul!
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool idea. Plus you could roll up some C notes and store them in the now unused piston barrels. (Like a trumpet player would have $300 laying around...) Don't forget to remove them when you take it to the pawn shop.

Seriously- good luck with your endeavor.
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