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Caruso and Mouthpieces



 
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Destructo
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:03 am    Post subject: Caruso and Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Hi All,

I was wondering if Caruso had any thoughts regarding mouthpiece size etc and individual players?

Was it a case of 'the mouthpiece/equipment doesn't matter' if you do the exercises long enough?

Did Carmine or do any teachers of his approach ever find that changing mouthpiece is necessary, and if so, for what reasons?

Asking for a friend...
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Caruso and Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Destructo wrote:
Hi All,

I was wondering if Caruso had any thoughts regarding mouthpiece size etc and individual players?

Was it a case of 'the mouthpiece/equipment doesn't matter' if you do the exercises long enough?

Did Carmine or do any teachers of his approach ever find that changing mouthpiece is necessary, and if so, for what reasons?

Asking for a friend...


I studied with Carmine and also one of his former students for 6 years. We never discussed mouthpieces. Carmine had played sax. The other individual I studied with plays French Horn.
The years I studied with them I went through 3 mouthpieces. Bach 7C, Zottola 64B and Bach 3C.
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Destructo
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I assumed as much, but let me add some context to why I'm asking.

To me, the Caruso Method seems to promise 'Do these exercises and you'll work out over time the mechanics of playing.'

But a lot of mouthpiece makers, and a lot of the discussion around mouthpiece is how mouthpiece design interacts with your personal anatomy, the implication being that we can't/shouldn't all try to play on a 1C or whatever, and that some people won't be able to play on X variable as well as others etc.

These two things seem largely contradictory.

Just wondering if there is any Caruso wisdom to be shared here.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Caruso method organizes the way you go from note to note. It organizes your playing regardless of anatomy.

Mouthpieces adjust sound and can exploit different ranges. Anatomy can effect mouthpiece choices.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Destructo wrote:
...
Just wondering if there is any Caruso wisdom to be shared here.

----------------------------
Probably not, regarding mouthpiece choice - other than 'find one that does not inhibit functionality, and then practice to make it work'.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Destructo wrote:
...
Just wondering if there is any Caruso wisdom to be shared here.

----------------------------
Probably not, regarding mouthpiece choice - other than 'find one that does not inhibit functionality, and then practice to make it work'.


Sounds right to me.
Lew Soloff studied with Carmine early on as did many NY players. Lew apparently used a lot of different size mouthpieces for different playing situations.
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Destructo
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks folks - It was one of those questions that's been in the back of my head for many years, so it's good to finally have an answer.
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PH
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing Carmine ever said to me about mouthpieces (or horns for that matter) was:

1) Changing mouthpieces sets up a moving target. If you play on two mouthpieces it requires twice as much practice (for most people), an equal amount on each set up. Otherwise, it takes much longer to get your playing settled.

2) Ditto for horns. He said he figured the same mouthpieces might not always work when you play a different instrument. But again, to play equally well on multiple instruments requires an equal time commitment of (particularly calisthenic) practice on each instrument on a daily basis. If you want to sound equally good on Bb, flugelhorn, and C trumpet you should do all your calisthenics on all three horns every day.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
The only thing Carmine ever said to me about mouthpieces (or horns for that matter) was:

1) Changing mouthpieces sets up a moving target. If you play on two mouthpieces it requires twice as much practice (for most people), an equal amount on each set up. Otherwise, it takes much longer to get your playing settled.

2) Ditto for horns. He said he figured the same mouthpieces might not always work when you play a different instrument. But again, to play equally well on multiple instruments requires an equal time commitment of (particularly calisthenic) practice on each instrument on a daily basis. If you want to sound equally good on Bb, flugelhorn, and C trumpet you should do all your calisthenics on all three horns every day.


Interesting. I was always amazed at how Lew Soloff could pull that off and sound so great playing anything from Baroque to straight ahead jazz. The french horn guy I first studied Caruso with roomed with Lew at Julliard.
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shortymctrpt
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a classically oriented player and use a Pickett 1.25C. Use what fits your face best. If you are not satisfied with your current setup make an appointment with someone like Pickett or Warburton that can help get you what's most comfortable for you and what sounds good.

Remember, this system is about making your playing strong and efficient.
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PH
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shortymctrpt wrote:
I am a classically oriented player and use a Pickett 1.25C. Use what fits your face best. If you are not satisfied with your current setup make an appointment with someone like Pickett or Warburton that can help get you what's most comfortable for you and what sounds good.

Remember, this system is about making your playing strong and efficient.


I personally agree with this, up to a point. My work with Alex Yates and GR gave me the best possible mouthpiece solution for myself and the horns I was currently playing back then. However, the OP specifically asked about Carmine's teaching on mouthpieces and this is the dedicated Caruso Forum, so I have to reiterate that Carmine basically took the people who walked into his studio and taught them to play better on whatever instrument and accessories they brought.

And the system is not primarily about "making your playing strong and efficient." It's about improve your sense of rhythm and that focus on timing results in better muscle synchronization/coordination, which in turn improves every aspect of playing on any instrument.
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shortymctrpt
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And the system is not primarily about "making your playing strong and efficient." It's about improve your sense of rhythm and that focus on timing results in better muscle synchronization/coordination, which in turn improves every aspect of playing on any instrument.


Thanks for this quote. I got into Caruso well after my undergrad and masters taking lessons with a student of Laurie Frink. In school I had both studied with Stamp students and with Chicago School players. I found that Caruso increased my efficiency through strength, something I always struggled with when doing Stamp. But I realize after reading your response the importance of rhythm and timing. Thanks for sharing that.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
shortymctrpt wrote:
I am a classically oriented player and use a Pickett 1.25C. Use what fits your face best. If you are not satisfied with your current setup make an appointment with someone like Pickett or Warburton that can help get you what's most comfortable for you and what sounds good.

Remember, this system is about making your playing strong and efficient.


I personally agree with this, up to a point. My work with Alex Yates and GR gave me the best possible mouthpiece solution for myself and the horns I was currently playing back then. However, the OP specifically asked about Carmine's teaching on mouthpieces and this is the dedicated Caruso Forum, so I have to reiterate that Carmine basically took the people who walked into his studio and taught them to play better on whatever instrument and accessories they brought.

And the system is not primarily about "making your playing strong and efficient." It's about improve your sense of rhythm and that focus on timing results in better muscle synchronization/coordination, which in turn improves every aspect of playing on any instrument.


My experience is it coordinated my playing. I thought less and just played. I did see a violinist come in for a session as I was finishing up. Unfortunately, I had a train to catch and couldn't stay to observe
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
...
And the system is not primarily about "making your playing strong and efficient." It's about improve your sense of rhythm and that focus on timing results in better muscle synchronization/coordination, which in turn improves every aspect of playing on any instrument.

------------------------------------
Does Caruso get involved with sound quality?
How and when?

Is there ever a stated or implied goal of having 'best sound' for the duration of the notes being played?
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5859
Location: New Albany, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
PH wrote:
...
And the system is not primarily about "making your playing strong and efficient." It's about improve your sense of rhythm and that focus on timing results in better muscle synchronization/coordination, which in turn improves every aspect of playing on any instrument.

------------------------------------
Does Caruso get involved with sound quality?
How and when?

Is there ever a stated or implied goal of having 'best sound' for the duration of the notes being played?


It's a result that comes unbidden while we focus relentlessly on timing and rhythm.
_________________
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Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com
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