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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: |
Whilst the search/autocomplete lets me find things I know are there, the actual list stops at Jettone Doc Severinsen - beyond that only the search function will find.
Could just be my device or could be a genuine problem.
Either way, love the updates and continued availability of this valuable resource. |
Yes, that's correct. On some browsers (mostly Google Chrome), the lists automatically get cut off after ~500 items, which stops at that Jettone. There are 800+ entries, ~600 of which are trumpet drawings.
If you run into this problem, use Safari or Firefox instead, or just narrow down the results with a brand name or other keyword (e.g., "Yamaha", "Marcinkiewicz", or "Shew").
I'm looking into ways to best handle this quirk; am open to ideas here. It's not clear how many people will continue to scroll the lists anyways if given a faster keyword selection method, but I get why this might be a little frustrating. |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1825
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that's correct. On some browsers (mostly Google Chrome), the lists automatically get cut off after ~500 items, which stops at that Jettone. There are 800+ entries, ~600 of which are trumpet drawings.
If you run into this problem, use Safari or Firefox instead, or just narrow down the results with a brand name or other keyword (e.g., "Yamaha", "Marcinkiewicz", or "Shew").
I'm looking into ways to best handle this quirk; am open to ideas here. It's not clear how many people will continue to scroll the lists anyways if given a faster keyword selection method, but I get why this might be a little frustrating. |
First, thank you for providing this resource FREE to trumpet players.
Second, my programming skills are 30 years out of date but it might be easier for you to do this in modules. Plan for 2000 scans.
Break the data file into 4 alphabetically ranged "modules" plus a separate Fluglehorn /mis module. Each module would have room for 200 or so of the present scans with additional room for 300 more. Your initial menu would allow the selection of one of the modules. Each module operates just like original comparator within its alphabetical range. At the Bottom and Top of each module list - put in a "return" to the first menu.
I'm sure that by the time you run out of room in each module, Chrome will have upgraded to longer lists.
Oh don't forget - someday someone will send in scans for Zottalas. |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Chadwick wrote: | | TKSop wrote: |
Whilst the search/autocomplete lets me find things I know are there, the actual list stops at Jettone Doc Severinsen - beyond that only the search function will find.
Could just be my device or could be a genuine problem.
Either way, love the updates and continued availability of this valuable resource. |
Yes, that's correct. On some browsers (mostly Google Chrome), the lists automatically get cut off after ~500 items, which stops at that Jettone. There are 800+ entries, ~600 of which are trumpet drawings.
If you run into this problem, use Safari or Firefox instead, or just narrow down the results with a brand name or other keyword (e.g., "Yamaha", "Marcinkiewicz", or "Shew").
I'm looking into ways to best handle this quirk; am open to ideas here. It's not clear how many people will continue to scroll the lists anyways if given a faster keyword selection method, but I get why this might be a little frustrating. |
Yep, you got me - chrome.
I'd swear it was showing the entire list a few weeks ago though!
I suppose one easy workaround is to put the list at the bottom of the page and have the forms as the autocomplete only? |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: |
Yep, you got me - chrome.
I'd swear it was showing the entire list a few weeks ago though!
I suppose one easy workaround is to put the list at the bottom of the page and have the forms as the autocomplete only? |
If you feel like you're missing out, here's the old version you can use until I post a better solution for us Google Chrome users (myself included). Will probably get some fix posted in the next couple days.
| Andy Cooper wrote: |
First, thank you for providing this resource FREE to trumpet players.
Second, my programming skills are 30 years out of date but it might be easier for you to do this in modules. Plan for 2000 scans.
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Thanks for the suggestions and compliments! I like your "2000-scan plan" paradigm, and it's one reason why a dynamic search option will ultimately be better imho. When there becomes 2000+ options, I think most people will default to narrowing their search instead of scrolling. But they should have both options ideally.
FWIW this specific issue appears to be with Google Chrome's handling of <datalist> tags with more than 512 items (see this official description for technical details). The repository has over 600 trumpet entries, and 800+ overall. Breaking down into alphabetical ranges or other subsets would probably ignore the case of many cross-manufacturer rim/top/backbore combos (see "E14" or "PARKE"), and could involve a lot more clicking.
I did some digging on my end this afternoon, and I think the long-term fix for Chrome users will be either to use an open source dropdown menu that can support large lists (like this), or some hybrid of the old read-only style and the dynamic search approach.
Thanks again - Cheers! |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1825
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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OK - I just downloaded Firefox for Windows - works great.
Keep up the good work. |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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What does the little "V" next to some of the scans mean?
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | What does the little "V" next to some of the scans mean? |
I'm guessing those are the Vennture scans that were added? |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | What does the little "V" next to some of the scans mean? |
I'm guessing those are the Vennture scans that were added? |
That's my guess as well, but I was wondering. What are the ones without the V, then?
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | TKSop wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | What does the little "V" next to some of the scans mean? |
I'm guessing those are the Vennture scans that were added? |
That's my guess as well, but I was wondering. What are the ones without the V, then? |
I think they're the original Kanstul (James R New) scans - of which some appeared on the public versions of the comparator and some on the "hidden" versions that less of us saw. |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1825
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm giddy with all of the new VennCad mouthpiece scans. Since the backbores are included with the tops, it will soon contain many high quality scans of the most popular backbores.
Most of the Bach backbores are there - several commercial Warburtons along with Ken Titmus backbores.
Nice work. Thanks. |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | | I'm giddy with all of the new VennCad mouthpiece scans. Since the backbores are included with the tops, it will soon contain many high quality scans of the most popular backbores. |
That’s right! Vennture came out with a BIG update on Cyber Monday. As of today, the trumpet.cloud comparator now has 99.5% of that updated library for Flugelhorn, Cornet, and Trumpet designs. The comparator has both 2D and 3D viewing options for the Vennture mouthpiece additions, along with the 2D scans from the original archive. If there’s a 3D view available, there will be a Rubik’s cube you can click (displayed above the list).
The comparator’s naming convention is a little different from Vennture’s to better mix with the full public archive, and some of their top-only options have been paired with a backbore for easier viewing (see the Parke section as an example).
| Crazy Finn wrote: | | What does the little "V" next to some of the scans mean? |
The Ⓥ designs in the comparator were scanned by Vennture and can be reproduced by their team and/or customized to your needs. Reach out to them @ https://vennture.mp
| Andy Cooper wrote: | | OK - I just downloaded Firefox for Windows - works great. |
FYI: The traditional scroll lists have returned as the default option on all browsers (including Chrome) as these seem to work best on most of our devices and are probably good enough for most players. But if you want to narrow your results, click the “Switch to text input / autocomplete mode” and type a very short entry.
Reach out directly with any issues loading the new listings. Cheers! ~Chadwick |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1908
Location: WI
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Your mouthpiece comparator works great; thank you for taking the trouble to set all this up and enhance it!
However, I think your backbore comparator needs a little work. When I switch between "A" selections before choosing a "B" for comparison, the "A" image jumps an inch or so to the right each time (this doesn't happen with the mouthpiece comparator). After ten or twelve selections, the image has moved so far to the right that it disappears from view (unless I scroll over). After around twenty selections, the image jumps completely out of view.
On top of that, the "manual move" option doesn't work for Design A. For Design B, the control buttons don't work, but you can place the cursor over the image, hold the left mouse button down, drag the cursor to a new position, and the image will jump to the new position when you release the mouse button. This is a flaw compared to what happens with the mouthpiece comparator, where the image actually gets smoothly dragged to the new position as you move the cursor (making it much easier to align with the other image).
Actually, now that I try it, the "manual move" option doesn't work for Design A on the mouthpiece comparator either. However, it's not that important to allow manual movement of Design A if you can move Design B. Maybe you should just drop the option of choosing Design A.
I hope you don't mind feedback at this level of detail. (I used to work in IT as a programmer and database designer before I retired.  )
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | Your mouthpiece comparator works great; thank you for taking the trouble to set all this up and enhance it!
However, I think your backbore comparator needs a little work. ...
I hope you don't mind feedback at this level of detail. (I used to work in IT as a programmer and database designer before I retired. ) |
Thank you for this feedback! The main mouthpiece comparator code was updated substantially in late 2022 to work better and across more devices and browsers. The backbore comparator code admittedly wasn’t being updated along the way, which might have been part of the problem. The backbore comparator code now matches the improved code of the full mouthpiece version. You might need to press the “Refresh” button to see it!
Right now, the best way to compare most backbores is just by finding the full top+backbore design in the main mouthpiece comparator. The actual quality of the current backbore-only scans leaves something to be desired — those drawings were put together a few decades ago as low-quality GIFs, and those backbore drawings are smaller in scale than the full mouthpiece ones available on the main site.
Good points about the “manual move” A/B selector too. I’ll reach out to you directly about your other comments!
Cheers ~Chadwick |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1908
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Chadwick wrote: | | I’ll reach out to you directly about your other comments! |
Thanks Chadwick! I'll reply to your email and answer the follow-up technical questions you had for me.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Just a quick Memorial Day update that we have received dozens of scan donations over the last few months, including some rare Bach Aida, Flip Oakes, Amati-Kraslice, and Naderton mouthpieces. And over the past weekend, our site host has made performance updates to help the site load the 2D scans faster on all devices.
View the latest version of the comparator here:
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc |
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San Antonio Horn
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 264
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:17 pm Post subject: Mouthpiece Comparator |
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| I think the big question for everyone is WHO can cut these mouthpieces now that Kanstul is gone. What a huge blow to loose the ability to choose any cup or rim on any blank. It’s getting harder and harder to find many of these ancient gems and Kanstul was a great place to purchase high quality copies. Any one know who is doing a similar service now?[/quote] |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1908
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece Comparator |
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| San Antonio Horn wrote: | | I think the big question for everyone is WHO can cut these mouthpieces now that Kanstul is gone. |
Jim New has established his own business since leaving Kanstul, and he can scan mouthpieces and make duplicates on a CNC machine. Here's the link to his website:
https://james-r-new.com/
(If you scroll down a screen or so on this page, you will see verbiage regarding custom work.)
Another outfit that does custom work from scans is Vennture Mouthpieces:
https://www.vennture.mp/product/custom-mouthpiece/
They even provide links to download and learn their free proprietary VennCAD software so that you can create digital files of your own mouthpiece designs which they will use to create a finished product.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece Comparator |
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| Halflip wrote: | | San Antonio Horn wrote: | | I think the big question for everyone is WHO can cut these mouthpieces now that Kanstul is gone. |
Jim New has established his own business since leaving Kanstul, and he can scan mouthpieces and make duplicates on a CNC machine. Here's the link to his website:
https://james-r-new.com/ |
Jim New is still in business as of a few weeks ago, and can cut you most of the tops from the original comparator. His custom threaded tops are all cut at a competitive price, and his turnaround time has been under a month for each custom order of mine.
Vennture is ahead of the game on the consumer side, and can cut you the Ⓥ scans. They also provide accurate scanning and relatively quick 3D printing of prototypes which can help you save money trying to find the right size and design. |
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Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 143
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dave Harrison of Wedge Mouthpieces recently sent in ~85 top designs from his mouthpiece line — Trumpet, Cornet, and Flugelhorn tops. Take a look!
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc
If you’re a trumpet mouthpiece manufacturer and would like to get your designs added into the trumpet.cloud library, contact the email address listed on the comparator page for more information! |
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iiipopes
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 550
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: |
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There is a great selection of Mark Curry scans: BC, DC, DE, P, TC, TF, VC, XS, Z. The notable missing one for cornet is the BBC. I would gladly loan my 3BBC to scan to add to the Curry scans for comparison, especially with the TC and VC, but I don't want to pay for it.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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