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Replace valve guides on an Olds Recording?


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gjdoyle
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Joined: 03 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:48 pm    Post subject: Replace valve guides on an Olds Recording? Reply with quote

I've got an Olds Recording trumpet with the nylon top part of the valves -- is it possible to replace the valve guides? Noticed mine were getting pretty worn, but I couldn't find a way to remove them and I didn't want to break anything.
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benlewis
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This might be a bit off-topic as it's not a direct replacement; but I had a set of these installed on an L.A.-era Super and the valve action is super-smooth and super-quiet:

https://bajocmusic.com/bajoc-ergonomic-valve-guides-evgs/

HTH

Ben
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gjdoyle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that. Hadn't seen those before. If possible, I'm probably just looking to replace with similar guides if I can get them.

Does anyone know if these nylon valves unscrew from the plated bottoms? Not sure how much discussion there's already been here about Olds' use of plastic and replacement parts, looked through the archives and couldn't find anything relevant.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just go to eBay and search for

olds recording trumpet valve guides

Looks like you will need to get the entire "tune up" kit for about $30.


The guide is in two parts - you need to pop the top part out to replace - perhaps this will help.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1012465
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP's issue is that his horn is one of the late production models which has the entire spring barrel made of a machinable polycarbonate, which, if memory serves, was called Ryton. I actually supervised large scale coal fueled power plant emission control systems which had very large Ryton machined valve seals in the 80's.it was tough stuff and why I remembered that little nugget.

I am not at all certain that the valve guides for this were the same as the nylon guides used for a short time for the pistons with brass spring barrels.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP is referring to the later Olds trumpet upper valve section made with what Olds called Valox.

Centex Brass stated, in a for sale posting, that a guide was replaced. This can be seen in the pic below. I am not familiar with how they accomplished this task.

You may want to email Clay Collins at Centex Brass: mailto:centexbrass@gmail.com

Ron


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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron, that's one of the most incredibly useful answers I've ever seen on a forum!
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Last edited by Halflip on Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
Ron, that's one of the most incredibly useful answers I've ever seen on a forum!

Thanks Halflip. I try to do a lot of research before and even after I purchase horns. Others on TH have provided info, data, opinions and links, so I try return the favor and pay it forward.

The Olds Valox details was obtained from the 1973 Olds catalog posted on https://olds-central.com/ There is a great deal on Olds info provided on the site.
Ron


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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjdoyle - keep us posted if you find the answer to replacing the valve guides.
Ron
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question on the plastic material. When I started my apprenticeship back in the 70's, we knew the white plastic that Olds used as Delrin. That's a Dupont product still being made.

From Dupont's Web site: "Compared to acetal copolymer, Delrin® acetal homopolymer offers higher tensile strength, stiffness, creep and fatigue resistance, and significantly higher impact resistance."
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gjdoyle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronnman wrote:
The OP is referring to the later Olds trumpet upper valve section made with what Olds called Valox.

Centex Brass stated, in a for sale posting, that a guide was replaced. This can be seen in the pic below. I am not familiar with how they accomplished this task.

You may want to email Clay Collins at Centex Brass: mailto:centexbrass@gmail.com

Ron



That's exactly it, and that photo confirms it is possible. Super helpful, I'll email Clay and let the forum know if I hear anything back.
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gjdoyle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: after removing the valve stem, the top Valox section just pulls off. Turns out it's just that simple.
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjdoyle - Do you mean that the valve stem passes thru the Valox section and threads into the lower (metal) valve section? A pic of this disassembled would be great for future reference.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjdoyle - If you email me a photo, I can post it with a link, if you need me too.
Ron
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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gjdoyle
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpet's currently in at the shop, took it in for a service (which is where I learned this), once I have it back I can try to post some pics.
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjdoyle wrote:
Trumpet's currently in at the shop, took it in for a service (which is where I learned this), once I have it back I can try to post some pics.


gjdoyle - did you get the horn back from service? Can you post a pic of the disassembled valve top?
Thanks,
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjdoyle - Can you post a pic of the disassembled valve top?

I alsosent you a PM on another subject.
Ron
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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dr-pepp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got around to taking some photos of this

https://olds-central.com/valox-valve-guides/
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Clay Collins
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www.centexbrass.com
also administrator of Olds Central
www.olds-central.com
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clay - Thanks for the pics and details on how these Olds valves are disassembled.👍
Ron
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014
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