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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Lou has had the eureka moment and solved it. Increasing the gap made things worse. The cornet plays better with the B10 backbore with the smallest gap, but there was that the feeling of a lack of resistance even when the gap got so large that it felt stuffy, then it dawned on me where it was coming from. I have modular tops in three blank styles, that increasing add more mass at the bottom of the cup, Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank, James R New standard blank, Bach trumpet mouthpiece style blank. I switched from the Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank to the James R New one, considerably better, then my usual Bach trumpet style blank which I use with all my everyday trumpets and cornets. Eureka moment.
If only I had just put my usual mouthpiece in from my Yamaha Neo. Oh well. Got there in the end.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Ronnman
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 345
Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Lou has had the eureka moment and solved it. Increasing the gap made things worse. The cornet plays better with the B10 backbore with the smallest gap, but there was that the feeling of a lack of resistance even when the gap got so large that it felt stuffy, then it dawned on me where it was coming from. I have modular tops in three blank styles, that increasing add more mass at the bottom of the cup, Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank, James R New standard blank, Bach trumpet mouthpiece style blank. I switched from the Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank to the James R New one, considerably better, then my usual Bach trumpet style blank which I use with all my everyday trumpets and cornets. Eureka moment. |
Lou - Sounds like you are getting this issue correctly dialed in!
| Quote: | I have also read that some folks detect this with machined mouthpieces and sleeves similiar to that made by Reeves. If I recall correctly these folks eventually had one piece mouthpieces made to achieve the gap they wanted, once they knew the ideal gap.
I think that they just have the sleeve soldered on rather than have one piece mouthpieces made, but I could be wrong. Personally I don't notice this with issue with sleeves. You can get this with modular tops and backbores when they are not screwed together properly. I can hear frorm the sound when the top is unscrewed. The sleeve on my main trumpet mouthpiece for my Yamaha Xeno II is actually loose fitting, so that you can easily spin the backbore round. It has always been like this. I have a feeling that it may be owing to the sleeve rather than the backbore. I can't remember why I chose this particular combination but I did, and I've been playing it for eight years like it. I honestly don't notice any lack of resonance or reduction in sound quality. |
I appreciate all your detailed insight into issues of the sort. I’m glad to hear your positive experience with the Gap Modulator and sleeves. I will likely move forward in the Jim New GM as I play a standard Schilke 13A4a, which are readily available and pretty consistent tolerance wise.
Ron
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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Robert P
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2501
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Louise do you have something online so what all this translates to as far as the actual sound of you playing can be heard?
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ronnman wrote: | | Quote: | | Lou has had the eureka moment and solved it. Increasing the gap made things worse. The cornet plays better with the B10 backbore with the smallest gap, but there was that the feeling of a lack of resistance even when the gap got so large that it felt stuffy, then it dawned on me where it was coming from. I have modular tops in three blank styles, that increasing add more mass at the bottom of the cup, Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank, James R New standard blank, Bach trumpet mouthpiece style blank. I switched from the Bach cornet mouthpiece style blank to the James R New one, considerably better, then my usual Bach trumpet style blank which I use with all my everyday trumpets and cornets. Eureka moment. |
Lou - Sounds like you are getting this issue correctly dialed in!
Hi Ron
Yes, I'm fully confident now that I've solved it. The cornet was playing well, and slotting fine, but there was this feeling of a lack of security and a lack of resistance, which has gone away with the different top.
I'm aware that I have a smaller gap, which I like to be honest, and that this is making my set up a little more open and may affect endurance, but it flies upstairs this way, whereas with a larger gap, the upper register is pretty stuffy.
I haven't a particularly large range overall, E maybe above high C, I don't really play up there but know that I can consistently play the high Eb on the 1st movement of the Haydn on a Bb trumpet.
I however can maintain my range well, and play comfortably up there, giving the perception of having a good upper range. Over the years, I've always got the reputation as the solo cornet who's the most comfortable in the upper register, the one who puts in the soprano cues when there is no soprano, and a chat with my new bandmaster has indicated that he wants the same from me. Basically he got me to cover the flugel solo of Nimrod at our last rehearsal, as the flugel player was not there, and said afterwards that he could have done with me on the solo cornet part as it is very high with lots of high Cs. I therefore feel that something that plays well in the upper register is going to be more useful, even if the slightly open blow reduces my endurance slightly. Maybe it won't, if it feels easier to blow. Who knows, hopefully my endurance will build up with more time on this set-up. Hopefully also the feeling of more resistance from the heavier mass round the bottom of the cup will solve all this. All I know is that I'm done with experimenting, and it is now time to put in the practise time on my chosen set-up. I feel that endurance is bit of a mind gain with me. If I feel that I'm not going to have enough endurance, tension enters my playing and it is a self fulfilling prophecy.
| Quote: | I have also read that some folks detect this with machined mouthpieces and sleeves similiar to that made by Reeves. If I recall correctly these folks eventually had one piece mouthpieces made to achieve the gap they wanted, once they knew the ideal gap.
I think that they just have the sleeve soldered on rather than have one piece mouthpieces made, but I could be wrong. Personally I don't notice this with issue with sleeves. You can get this with modular tops and backbores when they are not screwed together properly. I can hear frorm the sound when the top is unscrewed. The sleeve on my main trumpet mouthpiece for my Yamaha Xeno II is actually loose fitting, so that you can easily spin the backbore round. It has always been like this. I have a feeling that it may be owing to the sleeve rather than the backbore. I can't remember why I chose this particular combination but I did, and I've been playing it for eight years like it. I honestly don't notice any lack of resonance or reduction in sound quality. |
I appreciate all your detailed insight into issues of the sort. I’m glad to hear your positive experience with the Gap Modulator and sleeves.
You are very welcome.
I will likely move forward in the Jim New GM as I play a standard Schilke 13A4a, which are readily available and pretty consistent tolerance wise.
I would, on another 13A4a, so you keep you original one standard until you know that you like it. Like I said before, I went with sleeves afterwards, as the gap modulator is a little cumbersome, but you could stay with it.
Jim New is brilliant in my opinion, and his mouthpieces and sleeves play extremely well. I've been using them for eight years on all my trumpets.
Ron
All the best
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | Louise do you have something online so what all this translates to as far as the actual sound of you playing can be heard? |
Hi Robert P
No. It is a long while since I experimented with a gap modulator that allowed me to go too far each way, but my experience is that starting with a far too large gap, the sound is stuffy and gradually opens up and becomes more resonant, becoming dimmer and more diffuse with less resonance as you reduce the gap past the sweet spot.
In the sweeter range, I'd say that the difference in sound is subtle. When I had a bit too large gap, as well as feeling stuffy, the sound was slightly stuffy, and my modern jazz saxophonist husband said that the sound sounded stuffed. He however knows my playing very well. I've played this cornet with two different gap set ups at two consecutive rehearsals. I felt that the smaller gap sounded more open, but I don't think that any of my colleagues noticed the difference.
Basically, what you feel comes out in sound to a certain extent. If it feels stuffier to play, it probably sounds slightly stuffier.
Of course some of this is how I play. I'm only a reasonably high level amateur player, who also doubles flute at the same level. I'd say that I use a fair bit of air, and have to consciously think to back off and use less but faster air in the upper register. I'm probably therefore not the most efficient of players. I pride myself as being able to play what I can nicely with a nice sound, and have decent enough technique up to a reasonably high level, but I'm hardly going to have the top orchestras or brass bands banging on my door, so there is an element of matching my set-up to my playing style/limitations.
I do however fully understand lol that it is easy to get hooked up on minutia, which makes little difference in the real world of playing, hence stopping my experimentation now.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Ronnman
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 345
Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I will likely move forward in the Jim New GM as I play a standard Schilke 13A4a, which are readily available and pretty consistent tolerance wise.
I would, on another 13A4a, so you keep you original one standard until you know that you like it. Like I said before, I went with sleeves afterwards, as the gap modulator is a little cumbersome, but you could stay with it.
Jim New is brilliant in my opinion, and his mouthpieces and sleeves play extremely well. I've been using them for eight years on all my trumpets. |
Lou - I took your advise and purchased a second Schilke 13A4a and a second Jettone BC (Bill Chase reissue). I measured them in multiple areas to confirm their consistency to my existing pieces and played them for a while. I then sent them to James News for the Gap Modulator modification. He provided a quick turnaround. One thing I asked him, was if the modification changed to overall weight of the mouthpiece. He stated that on his blanks there was no difference. When I received my mouthpieces back, I weighted them and compared to what they were originally. The mouthpieces weighted about 0.02 ounces (or 0.006%) more, insignificant in my opinion.
What I can state is the precision in which the mouthpieces were machined, outstanding. I have more or less (remember the paralysis by analysis thing) found the best gap for my Leblanc Al Hirt Model trumpet. The horn likes a 0.134” gap for the Schilke 13A4a and a 0.113” gap for the Jettone BC. Many mouthpieces had little or no gap on this horn. Adjusting this has changed this horn to a much better sound and without the exhaustion of a small gap on a large bore 0.468”. I am extremely pleased and working on the gaps for my other trumpets. I have been measuring the mouthpiece setting with a digital vernier caliper for some level of accuracy and consistency in adjustments. One thing that I was surprised about is how little changing the gap can change the horn’s sound and slotting. I thought it would require changes in the 0.025” range. I can hear changes in as little as 0.006” range.
Thanks again for your James New GM insight.
Ron
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Lou - I took your advise and purchased a second Schilke 13A4a and a second Jettone BC (Bill Chase reissue). I measured them in multiple areas to confirm their consistency to my existing pieces and played them for a while.
Hi Ron
Good to hear! Thanks very much for letting me know.
I then sent them to James News for the Gap Modulator modification. He provided a quick turnaround.
Great!
One thing I asked him, was if the modification changed to overall weight of the mouthpiece. He stated that on his blanks there was no difference. When I received my mouthpieces back, I weighted them and compared to what they were originally. The mouthpieces weighted about 0.02 ounces (or 0.006%) more, insignificant in my opinion.
Good.
What I can state is the precision in which the mouthpieces were machined, outstanding.
That's good again.
I have more or less (remember the paralysis by analysis thing) found the best gap for my Leblanc Al Hirt Model trumpet. The horn likes a 0.134” (3.4036mm) gap for the Schilke 13A4a and a 0.113” (2.8702mm) gap for the Jettone BC.
Please excuse me for adding mm in brackets. Although I know what an inch looks like, being more familiar with centimetres and millimetres, I cannot visualise percentages of an inch, whereas I can visualise millimetres.
Although I personally work in millimetres, I understand gap in fractions of an inch. 1/8" being a supposed ideal gap on a Bach trumpet, and one whole sleeve size being 1/16", one half sleeve size being 1/32", one quarter sleeve size being 1/64". I have to convert these to millimetres to understand what this looks like, and get 1.5875mm, 0.79375mm and 0.396875mm respectively.
You are therefore liking a 0.5334mm difference in gap between your two mouthpieces, which is between a 1/4 and 1/2 sleeve size.
Many mouthpieces had little or no gap on this horn. Adjusting this has changed this horn to a much better sound and without the exhaustion of a small gap on a large bore 0.468”. I am extremely pleased and working on the gaps for my other trumpets.
I'm really pleased to hear this.
I have been measuring the mouthpiece setting with a digital vernier caliper for some level of accuracy and consistency in adjustments. One thing that I was surprised about is how little changing the gap can change the horn’s sound and slotting. I thought it would require changes in the 0.025” range. I can hear changes in as little as 0.006” (0.1524mm) range.
Yes, same here, and this is considerably smaller than one quarter sleeve size of 0.396875mm. However although we can hear the changes, in a real world playing situation, dialling in gap in 1/4 sleeves will no doubt be sufficient.
Thanks again for your James New GM insight.
You are again very welcome.
Ron
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Ronnman
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 345
Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Lou wrote:
Please excuse me for adding mm in brackets. Although I know what an inch looks like, being more familiar with centimetres and millimetres, I cannot visualise percentages of an inch, whereas I can visualise millimetres.
No excuse needed. We each have our preferred units of measurement. Back in the 80s (I believe) the US was converting to the Metric System. Specifically at NASA where I worked as a subcontractor, drawings and mechanical contract specifications and measurements were suddenly published with metric measurements. Just when I became familiar with the Metric System it disappeared from use in the US.
Although I personally work in millimetres, I understand gap in fractions of an inch. 1/8" being a supposed ideal gap on a Bach trumpet, and one whole sleeve size being 1/16", one half sleeve size being 1/32", one quarter sleeve size being 1/64". I have to convert these to millimetres to understand what this looks like, and get 1.5875mm, 0.79375mm and 0.396875mm respectively.
You are therefore liking a 0.5334mm difference in gap between your two mouthpieces, which is between a 1/4 and 1/2 sleeve size.
Yes, I attribute this difference in gaps to the different dimensions (length, backbore…etc.) between the two mouthpieces.
Thanks again, and all the best to you,
Ron
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ronnman wrote: |
No excuse needed.
Thanks very much.
We each have our preferred units of measurement.
I completely agree.
Back in the 80s (I believe) the US was converting to the Metric System. Specifically at NASA where I worked as a subcontractor, drawings and mechanical contract specifications and measurements were suddenly published with metric measurements. Just when I became familiar with the Metric System it disappeared from use in the US.
That must have been mildly irritating.
Yes, I attribute this difference in gaps to the different dimensions (length, backbore…etc.) between the two mouthpieces.
Yes, probably.
Thanks again, and all the best to you,
Ron
You are always very welcome and all the best to you also.
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1518
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I have a dumb question, but my understanding is that most cornets do not have a gap because they to not have the same aperture setup as a trumpet. In that they are more like a natural trumpet. There is no ledge between the leadpipe and the receiver. It is a smooth, even if tapering tube. If that is the case, there is no gap to adjust. Am I wrong about this? Or is it just some cornets are built this way?
I do not own and have rarely played cornet, but this has been my understanding of why there is no gap modulator for cornets.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi
The Bach 184ML cornet has a leadpipe and mouthpiece receiver like a trumpet, so has an actual gap.
Most other cornets have what looks like a flat rim of solder rather than a ledge at the top of the leadpipe. Just however because there is no actual gap between the top of a leadpipe and the end of a cornet mouthpiece on most cornets, does not mean that changing insertion amount makes no difference. In my experience, changing the insertion amount on a cornet with no actual gap has a lesser version of the same affect of changing the insertion amount on a trumpet, or cornet with an actual gap.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1518
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: |
The Bach 184ML cornet has a leadpipe and mouthpiece receiver like a trumpet, so has an actual gap.
Most other cornets have what looks like a fat rom of solder rather than a ledge at the top of the leadpipe. Just however because there is no actual gap between the top of a leadpipe and the end of a cornet mouthpiece on most cornets, does not mean that changing insertion amount makes no difference. In my experience, changing the insertion amount on a cornet with no actual gap has a lesser version of the same affect of changing the insertion amount on a trumpet, or cornet with an actual gap.
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Thanks Lou. Leave it to brass makers to make the situation complicated.
Interesting information to tuck away when I look into getting a cornet some day.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cgaiii wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: |
The Bach 184ML cornet has a leadpipe and mouthpiece receiver like a trumpet, so has an actual gap.
Most other cornets have what looks like a fat rom of solder rather than a ledge at the top of the leadpipe. Just however because there is no actual gap between the top of a leadpipe and the end of a cornet mouthpiece on most cornets, does not mean that changing insertion amount makes no difference. In my experience, changing the insertion amount on a cornet with no actual gap has a lesser version of the same affect of changing the insertion amount on a trumpet, or cornet with an actual gap.
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Thanks Lou.
You are very welcome.
Leave it to brass makers to make the situation complicated.
Very true lol.
Interesting information to tuck away when I look into getting a cornet some day.
You are again very welcome. You definitely must get a cornet sometime.
I love the cornet.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1518
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: |
[b]You are again very welcome. You definitely must get a cornet sometime.
I love the cornet.
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It is in the plan, but I just picked up a C trumpet that I had been looking for for ages (Schilke CXL to match my Bb X3L -- they are hard as hens teeth to find in any kind of decent shape and are too dear to buy new). So now I am laying low on horn acquisitions. Cornet or Eb/D is next on the list.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cgaiii wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: |
You are again very welcome. You definitely must get a cornet sometime.
I love the cornet.
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It is in the plan, but I just picked up a C trumpet that I had been looking for for ages (Schilke CXL to match my Bb X3L -- they are hard as hens teeth to find in any kind of decent shape and are too dear to buy new).
[b]I fully understand and congratulations on your new C trumpet (for some reason this will not post in bold and just puts a b indicator on one end, despite me having edited this five times!.
So now I am laying low on horn acquisitions. Cornet or Eb/D is next on the list.
I again fully understand. I suppose it depends on what sort of playing you are doing. I rarely play my straight D nowadays and have never played my D/Eb left in Eb since I tried it when I got it (both my straight D are older Yamahas that I got for a very reasonable price. One of these days I'll do the Haydn on the Eb). I however play cornet all the time.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1518
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: |
I rarely play my straight D nowadays and have never played my D/Eb left in Eb since I tried it when I got it (both my straight D are older Yamahas that I got for a very reasonable price. One of these days I'll do the Haydn on the Eb). I however play cornet all the time.
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I agree that a cornet would be a more practical purchase, but I have a number of scenarios that I would like to use Eb/D for, mostly for my own education. Anyway, I certainly am in no rush. I need to get out and try a bunch of cornets. I have some ideas, but need to play a bunch of them. Need a trip to Japan to visit all the great used brass shops I know in Tokyo!
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| cgaiii wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: |
I rarely play my straight D nowadays and have never played my D/Eb left in Eb since I tried it when I got it (both my straight D are older Yamahas that I got for a very reasonable price. One of these days I'll do the Haydn on the Eb). I however play cornet all the time.
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I agree that a cornet would be a more practical purchase, but I have a number of scenarios that I would like to use Eb/D for, mostly for my own education. Anyway, I certainly am in no rush. I need to get out and try a bunch of cornets. I have some ideas, but need to play a bunch of them.
All sounds great!
Need a trip to Japan to visit all the great used brass shops I know in Tokyo!
Does Tokyo have more great used brass shops than the US?
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1518
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: |
Does Tokyo have more great used brass shops than the US?
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Tokyo has concentrations of shops in several locations. In one area, for example, from Ochanomizu station down Meidai Dori (Meidai Street), there are dozens of used instrument shops. Perhaps five or six of them carry brass instruments at any given time. You can spend a day walking the short walk and trying horns. (The street is dominated by guitar shops, drum shops, etc.) There are other areas, such as around Shinjuku that have some great shops too.
The big thing is the quality and variety of the instruments you usually find. For example, I bought my Schilke X3L with the Sandoval mods on it in virtually new condition, even though it was 20+ years old, from one tiny wind specialty shop on Meidai Dori, very reasonably priced, valves not even broken in. (Many Japanese buy really nice instruments for their children that never really get used. Do not know the history of my horn, but it must have sat in someone's closet for a couple of decades. The shop took care of making sure it was in perfect playing condition before putting it up for sale.)
In the States, there is a lot online, and there are some great shops in New York, etc. For new instruments, I can go two hours to the famous Washington Music Center, but I have never seen a concentration of used (and new) instruments that I could try out in the States as I have in Japan. (There are other places, such as Osaka that have them too.)
Another great thing now is that everything is online, so you can find instruments you want to try and then go to the area where they are and try others too.
It is great fun even if you do not buy.
Since my life and work take me to Japan fairly regularly, it is convenient for me.
I have known of these areas since I lived in Japan in the1980s. Back then I bought a used banjo at a great bluegrass specialty store in that area. A few years ago I went back and saw that the same store was there with the same owner. (I was taking my son around looking at guitars and fiddles. In one shop he got to play a violin valued at over $100,000, and they just let him play it. That day he also played a 1940s Gibson guitar.)
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4902
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much. All sounds really really great. Sadly I don't get the chance to go to Japan or the US.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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