Trumpet and the Rule of Three

[kalijah]

[ProAm]

It does not necessarily require a lip "buzz" to create a note on a brass instrument. I can't do it on trumpet but on tuba, I can create a low note by blowing and fluttering my tongue. It is not a usable way to play, probably because it isn't possible to impart much energy to the standing wave, but it does sound like a low, quiet, tuba note without my lips being involved at all.

[stuartissimo]

Getting a bit fed-up with your cherry picking and hair splitting so here’s my 2 cents on your replies.

[kalijah]

[stuartissimo]

It’s interesting how you’re trying to deflect the discussion to the point you wish to argue rather than what’s actually being discussed. It’s very easy for you to be ‘right’ that way. But I’m not interested.
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[Irving]

Kalijah, I don't agree with this statement at all. You are putting the cart before the horse.

"Pitch-matching (ear training) on a mouthpiece provides the wrong embouchure muscle memory relative to playing the same pitches on the full instrument."

I regularly pick up the mouthpiece and play accurate pitches without using another instrument. What enables me to do that has nothing to do with muscle memory. I can also do the same singing. (Do your vocal chords have muscle memory to sing notes as well? I don't think so). It has to do with having the pitches in my mind beforehand. If the pitch is clear in my imagination, it will come out on the mouthpiece, singing, or on the trumpet. The muscles just cooperate, as if it were a computer following software.

[kalijah]

[astadler]

What I always find funny about the buzzing controversy discussions is that you essentially always have the “pro-buzzing” side saying “this works for me and some of my students for xyz reasons, use it or don’t if it doesn’t work for you.”

Then you have the anti-buzzing side who will never for a second concede that it’s ok for others to buzz and there might be benefits for some, even if they personally don’t use it for themselves or their students.

Pedagogy isn’t one size fits all and that cuts both ways. I did both mouthpiece and free buzzing growing up, and I do mouthpiece buzzing with most of my students when I feel it’s appropriate and helpful. I don’t really do it myself in my own daily practice anymore but I think it helped get me to where I am having done it in the past.

[Irving]

Kalijah, I can't relate to "wrong muscle memory" or "feel of the pitch" at all. My chops always feel different, so can't depend on the feel of my chops. I'm not saying that you are wrong, only that we can only base success on the results that we get, not on the path we use to get there.

The only teacher that I had that advocated mouthpiece buzzing was Jacobs. He liked it to get away from the instrument, to have a feeling of strangeness, which helped when trying to develop new habits, as well as playing music without an instrument. Sing the tune in your mind and out it comes from the mouthpiece. I don't know what other people claim about buzzing, since I am pretty much out of the loop. If it helps, great. If not, great as well. Try something else. All of the other teachers I had never even mentioned mouthpiece buzzing. I'd like to hear from the author of the book why he advocates buzzing. He hasn't made much of a case for it. Reinhart advocated lip buzzing no mouthpiece to firm up flabby lips. No mouthpiece buzzing though.

[JayKosta]

[Chris OHara]

[Wilktone]

In my opinion an inconsistent playing feel is a symptom of something not being correct. I don't mean that you should not pay attention to sound, but if you're not getting a consistent playing sensation then perhaps you should evaluate and correct your playing mechanics. Both sound and feel are important.

Dave
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wilktone.com

[kehaulani]

Actually, I don't really know, from a scientific/acoustic analysis, how a sound is produced. f And to defend or criticize one way of thinking over another on this topic is beating a dead horse. But I do know two things:

*There are legions of highly accomplished trumpet players who are buzzing proponents. IMO it's just arrogant to say that they don't know what they're doing. The proof is in the pudding.

*And I, personally, have found the concept of letting the lips casually be brought into vibration, and mouthpipe playing, liberating. I play with a more relaxed embouchure. I no longer free buzz.

I am definitely not anti-science, but I know that there are factors that are sometimes unseen that effect the end result and sometimes in our rush to insist that our understanding of a scientific process is the only answer overlooks this unseen factor.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[JayKosta]

My 'current thinking' (thanks to Chris O'Hara) is that for playing and practice 'imagine the sound' needs to be much more than just mental 'hear the sound in your brain'. And it is much more than just the pitch.

'Imagine the sound' certainly needs to include the sound itself, but also needs all the physical actions that go into producing that sound. And for practice, there needs to be awareness of whether those physical actions are being done in the way to produce the desired sound - and how to make adjustments when needed.
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method 1: DO it right and right things will HAPPEN
method 2: make the RIGHT THINGS happen
--
See / Think / Adjust / Do
becomes See & Do.

[cheiden]

[cheiden]

[Chris OHara]

[Craig Swartz]

Those who are "chasing" either feeling or sound are only reacting to what has already happened. To late to fix things at that point.

To buzz or not to buzz: if the player does not already know what pitch, dynamic, release (attack) nuance is necessary before starting the breath column, odds increase that what comes out will not be what he/she/it wants to hear.

[kehaulani]

@Chris - is your bool sequential or does it jump around like the Arban?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Chris OHara]