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Smallish cup, larger backbore?

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Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 96
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:19 pm    Post subject: Smallish cup, larger backbore? Reply with quote

I play mostly big band lead, and use smallish cups--Schilke 10A4a and 12A4a-- on my Schilke X3 (.463 bore). I've had pretty good success, but always felt that I was working too hard, and things were too tight. But I kept thinking "lead backbore," and so stayed in the Schilke A world, along with some tighter Warburtons on a 10A4a cut for backbores. Recently, I bought a Schilke 12A4a on eBay to back up my battered and bruised one. The seller mistakenly sent me a 12A4 (regular Schilke C backbore), and I decided try it because I could send it back. Surprise! Upper register easier, sound fatter, endurance better. Has anyone else had this experience? Is it possible to draw any principles from this, or is this just a personal experience for my equipment and physiology?
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:23 pm    Post subject: smalish cup Reply with quote

I have experimented with many Warburton bb's and found that, depending on horn, too tight a bb will hinder rather than help. I also believe that personal playing has a great deal to do, as where each individual needs to have resistance. I play Schilke and have a B2, B3, B4 and an S33HD. Each horn has its own resistance point built in, so bb taper is important to each horn. My KT* works mostly with the B3, B2 and S33. Since the B4 has its own resistance built in to the bore size, a Schilke C or Warburton 5/6 seems to keep the sound from sounding too thin or nasal.
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Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Bach Corp. 10 1/2C and an Artisan 10 1/2C. The Artisan has a larger 24 backbore. My upper register is fatter and easier on the Artisan. The Bach Corp. feels tight.
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Heavyweight Member

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 1823
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s the reason I switched to AR Resonance: even their XS backbore is nice and open and does not back up on me. I also like Warburton but while there are a few tops that work great for me, I could never quite find a bb that really fit me (tested and played for a while from the KT* and NY to sizes between 5/5* all the way to 12).

The 4.0 mm throat on the ARs seems to have a lot to do with it and if that is still too tight for someone, there is always the 4.2 mm So I suppose OPs observation is not too uncommon.

Interesting question is always how long do you last in a gig. The ARs work fine for all my gigs so far.

I’d also second the statement by Christian K. Peters that not every mouthpiece will work equally well on every trumpet. My ARs and my Curry 7TC (and earlier on the GRs I had) are the only mouthpieces I have found so far that just seem to work on every trumpet I had/have. Other pieces were less „universal“ and I needed to match horn and piece.
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Joined: 04 Apr 2023
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Location: Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since my restart I've been downsizing my MP to meet my adjusted (aged) physical state. I played a Schilke 13A4A for all of my professional life, however the thing feels like a bucket now.

At first I just went down to a 6A4A but after a couple of months I wasn't really satisfied, and I had a chance to test a Warburton 8ESV top with a 5BB. The rim was still too wide for my lip and dental structure, but it felt like the larger BB moved the resistance of my whole setup further down into the horn.

At the end I settled on a 10ESV with a 8 BB. This combo works for me, however there are trade offs:

1). Articulation of anything lower than Bb or A below the staff is difficult and requires much attention.
2). Articulation and flexibility on top of the staff is much easier, and the reduction of movement has helped my endurance.
3). As to be expected intonation is an issue, and I need to use some alternate fingerings to keep it in check.
4). Above a high D my sound has a tendency to spread a little if I am playing too loud.
5). It is difficult to play soft in the upper register.

Is this the holy grail? I think not, but I have never been so solid between 2nd space A to high E. This is basically the range I need for my work so I'm looking to dial this in a little over the winter time.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably down to personal preference so take my next comments for what they're worth.

When I initially purchased my current AR lead (i.e. shallow) mouthpiece there were only 2 backbore sizes available at the store where I tried them: M and S. After playing them for a while I ran into some intonation problems which I tried to solve using tighter backbores, so I ended up getting a Lead backbore for my shallowest mouthpiece (and switched to the S backbore for my regular mouthpiece). Fast forward a year, my intonation problems are mostly solved (but not because of the backbore switch). I still use the tighter Lead backbore for the Lead mouthpiece but ended up switching back the the M backbore for my regular mouthpiece.

To me, the cup depth and backbore have to be balanced to work best. The shallow cup plays much better with the tighter Lead backbore than it does with the more open S one, but the same did not apply to the deeper cup.

N.B. 'Lead' is a size designation used by AR for shallow/tight mouthpieces/backbores.
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