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wiemelen
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 448
Location: Belgium
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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| mafields627 wrote: | | Also, in the states there really isn't much of a price difference between a 180-37 ($3676 from Woodwind & Brasswind) and an 8335 Xeno ($3197 from Woodwind & Brasswind). Here, the school market drives horn sales, so the popularity of one over the other may be based on what brand the local/regional music store carries. |
Still a 500 dollar price gap.
Over here in Europe (main land), the price gap is around 800 euros (almost 900 dollar), so rather significant I'ld say. Around 2.700 euro for a Xeno, 3.500 euro for a Bach 180 strad. Maybe a bit less if you are a good negotiator 
As a comparison, a Chicago goes for 4.300 euro retail (I payed few hundred less). And a Bach Artisan goes around 5.200 euros retail.
Considering those price gaps and the more consistent quality of Yamaha, it's no surprise that many people prefer Yamaha over Bach nowadays. Times change.
_________________
Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L2 (main) + Lotus 2L
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6 |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| wiemelen wrote: | | mafields627 wrote: | | Also, in the states there really isn't much of a price difference between a 180-37 ($3676 from Woodwind & Brasswind) and an 8335 Xeno ($3197 from Woodwind & Brasswind). Here, the school market drives horn sales, so the popularity of one over the other may be based on what brand the local/regional music store carries. |
Still a 500 dollar price gap.
Over here in Europe (main land), the price gap is around 800 euros (almost 900 dollar), so rather significant I'ld say. Around 2.700 euro for a Xeno, 3.500 euro for a Bach 180 strad. Maybe a bit less if you are a good negotiator
As a comparison, a Chicago goes for 4.300 euro retail (I payed few hundred less). And a Bach Artisan goes around 5.200 euros retail.
Considering those price gaps and the more consistent quality of Yamaha, it's no surprise that many people prefer Yamaha over Bach nowadays. Times change. |
Thanks very much wiemelen.
Very much appreciated.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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a.kemp
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Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I think I’ve written this before. But, here’s a few thoughts on the 8335II vs 9000 series:
The 8335II slots much looser. The 9000, much tighter.
If you are in top playing shape, the 9000 rewards the player. If you’re not, that tight slotting can be difficult. The 8335II slotting is a bit more Bach like.
The 9000 Gen III’s have better/quicker response, better intonation, more overtones.
When the 8335II was released, it borrowed design elements from the Artist Model Gen I horns. They were so much better than the original Xeno (which many didn’t care for)
Now that the Artist Models are up to Gen III, those design elements have greatly surpassed those earlier designs.
The 8335II is still a fantastic horn!!!! There are many pros who use a 9445chs c but continue to use their 8335II Bb. It’s good and comfortable for them.
In the US, most of the Artist model sales are driven by orchestral playing. There are some Jazz/commercial players who use 9335NY. But, most do not.
Yamaha has also come out with newer gen horns for those commercial players. And, many use 8335LA, 8310z gen II models.
So, the 8335II falls into a spot where it’s not heavily used with either pro crowd.
Now, I want a student 100% of the time to upgrade to a 8335II over a Bach 180-37. Better price, more consistent. |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| a.kemp wrote: | I think I’ve written this before. But, here’s a few thoughts on the 8335II vs 9000 series:
Thanks very much, this is really appreciated, and I don't remember reading this before.
The 8335II slots much looser. The 9000, much tighter.
If you are in top playing shape, the 9000 rewards the player. If you’re not, that tight slotting can be difficult.
Interesting, thanks. Why do you feel that tight slotting is easier if you are in top playing shape? I've never heard this before. What is it about tight slotting that requires a player to be in top playing shape.
The 8335II slotting is a bit more Bach like.
The 9000 Gen III’s have better/quicker response, better intonation, more overtones.
Interesting, again. Many thanks.
When the 8335II was released, it borrowed design elements from the Artist Model Gen I horns. They were so much better than the original Xeno (which many didn’t care for)
I don't particularly care for the Xeno I either. A decent enough trumpet but rather vanilla in my opinion.
Now that the Artist Models are up to Gen III, those design elements have greatly surpassed those earlier designs.
Again very interesting. I can see what you mean, but the Bach 180ML is an extremely old design comparatively. Yamaha seems to be very much about R&D and making improvements on successive generations, whereas Bach seems to stay with the same classic designs. Even the new top tier models, are I believe based on the designs of the past.
The 8335II is still a fantastic horn!!!!
I completely agree.
There are many pros who use a 9445chs c but continue to use their 8335II Bb. It’s good and comfortable for them.
I can fully understand why.
In the US, most of the Artist model sales are driven by orchestral playing. There are some Jazz/commercial players who use 9335NY. But, most do not.
Many thanks. Does the 9335NY slot tightly like the Chicago? If so, I can see why the jazz/commercial players don't favour it.
Yamaha has also come out with newer gen horns for those commercial players. And, many use 8335LA, 8310z gen II models.
Yes, I agree.
So, the 8335II falls into a spot where it’s not heavily used with either pro crowd.
I fully understand, thanks. I wonder however what it is about the classic Bach design that results in pros still using the Bach 37.
Now, I want a student 100% of the time to upgrade to a 8335II over a Bach 180-37. Better price, more consistent.
Yes, I agree. I didn't particularly choose my Xeno II. I was looking for a pro trumpet in a hurry to replace my Bach 37 which had an annoying sticking valve at the time. A retailer had my ex demo 8335 Xeno II for sale, and was prepared to offer me a very good trade in price on my never played 928 Sovereign cornet, making the difference to pay virtually nothing, which considering my very limited budget at the time, worked out great. After dialling in the mouthpiece gap, I've grown to really like this trumpet.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
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_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Hi a.kemp
Just one further question. Do you think that an 8335 Xeno II is generally a better trumpet than an average Bach 37?
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3051
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:32 am Post subject: |
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My view is that in the USA, Bach retains a reputation as being the well-known 'standard of excellence' - perhaps based more on its longtime history rather than current objective comparison to other brands.
Yamaha is viewed as a
'worthy competitor, but only time will tell whether it surpasses Bach'.
So, unless a buyer is really convinced that a particular Yamaha is better (or for $$ reasons), there's the view - wouldn't you really want Bach?
_________________
method 1: DO it right and right things will HAPPEN
method 2: make the RIGHT THINGS happen
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See / Think / Adjust / Do
becomes See & Do. |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | My view is that in the USA, Bach retains a reputation as being the well-known 'standard of excellence' - perhaps based more on its longtime history rather than current objective comparison to other brands.
Yamaha is viewed as a
'worthy competitor, but only time will tell whether it surpasses Bach'.
So, unless a buyer is really convinced that a particular Yamaha is better (or for $$ reasons), there's the view - wouldn't you really want Bach? |
Hi Jay
Interesting, thanks. Personally I prefer my Xeno II to my Bach 37.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2124
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | ... - wouldn't you really want Bach? |
Nope. |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Going back to what a.kemp days about the 9000 series being tighter slotting and generally bought by orchestral players, I wonder whether the Xeno II makes a better all-around trumpet.
Us amateur players are probably more likely to play in a wider range of settings than pros that specialise in one genre, and also amateur players probably are less likely to be able to justify a number of fairly expensive pro horns for different styles and settings. One good all-around trumpet such as the Bach 37 or Xeno II is probably a good choice.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I’ve just performed the following programme (not in this order. This was the programme before the order was chosen) in my community light orchestra concert:
Joyeuse March - Chabrier
La Calinda - Delius
Les Miserables - Schonberg
Masquerade Suite - Waltz - Khachaturian
Mazurka (Swan Lake) - Tchaikovsky
My Fair Lady - Loewe
New York, New York – Kander
The Bat – Strauss
I think that this sort of programme favours an all-around Bb trumpet.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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a.kemp
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Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Going back to what a.kemp days about the 9000 series being tighter slotting and generally bought by orchestral players, I wonder whether the Xeno II makes a better all-around trumpet.
Us amateur players are probably more likely to play in a wider range of settings than pros that specialise in one genre, and also amateur players probably are less likely to be able to justify a number of fairly expensive pro horns for different styles and settings. One good all-around trumpet such as the Bach 37 or Xeno II is probably a good choice.
All the best
Lou |
The tight slotting and therefore, very targeted and exact slots are something orchestral players appreciate. Makes for very exact and clean articulations.
However, the Xeno and 37 give much more leeway with slotting. If you miss the center on these, the note still speaks. Just out of tune. Whereas, on the Artist model, the note may crack.
That’s what I mean by it rewarding players who center all notes. It can be a handful if you aren’t being super accurate.
The 8335II may still be a more versatile instrument for genre jumping. |
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a.kemp
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi a.kemp
Just one further question. Do you think that an 8335 Xeno II is generally a better trumpet than an average Bach 37?
All the best
Lou |
I do think the 8335II is better and especially more consistent than a 180-37.
I’ve played some nice 190-37’s. But not the brand new Bach Gen II. They’re supposed to be great. But, now cost $4500US and are not super available. (Which is weird because they were released in April)
For that price, I’d take a 9335 series over the Bach all day |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| a.kemp wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Going back to what a.kemp days about the 9000 series being tighter slotting and generally bought by orchestral players, I wonder whether the Xeno II makes a better all-around trumpet.
Us amateur players are probably more likely to play in a wider range of settings than pros that specialise in one genre, and also amateur players probably are less likely to be able to justify a number of fairly expensive pro horns for different styles and settings. One good all-around trumpet such as the Bach 37 or Xeno II is probably a good choice.
All the best
Lou |
The tight slotting and therefore, very targeted and exact slots are something orchestral players appreciate. Makes for very exact and clean articulations.
Yes, I completely agree. When I do orchestral playing (I also play in a symphony orchestra), I also appreciate accurate slotting.
However, the Xeno and 37 give much more leeway with slotting. If you miss the center on these, the note still speaks. Just out of tune. Whereas, on the Artist model, the note may crack.
Oh I see what you mean. Personally I wouldn't appreciate either cracking or being out of tune.
That’s what I mean by it rewarding players who center all notes. It can be a handful if you aren’t being super accurate.
I aim to be super accurate in the symphony orchestra, and manage well enough. I'm however more of a lyrical ballad style player at heart, so my personal preference is looser slotting and greater flexibility. I love to play from the heart and put feel and passion in my playing. For my taste, the Xeno II is slotty enough for accurate orchestral entries, and slightly lacks flexibility for jazz. I'd rather have a trumpet that slots more loosely and you have to make an effort to come in on a high orchestral trumpet entry dead in tune, than one that is super slotty, not because I worry about being on form enough to not crack notes, but because I don't like super slotty trumpets for my other playing and I'm not a full on orchestral player, so like a trumpet that fits into more genres, to save having to bring more than one Bb with me.
I'm rather a jack of all trades and master of none type of player, and the Xeno II suits me in this regard.
The 8335II may still be a more versatile instrument for genre jumping.
I think so.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| a.kemp wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Hi a.kemp
Just one further question. Do you think that an 8335 Xeno II is generally a better trumpet than an average Bach 37?
All the best
Lou |
I do think the 8335II is better and especially more consistent than a 180-37.
I’ve played some nice 190-37’s. But not the brand new Bach Gen II. They’re supposed to be great. But, now cost $4500US and are not super available. (Which is weird because they were released in April)
For that price, I’d take a 9335 series over the Bach all day |
Thanks very much. I think I'll stick with my Xeno II.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2623
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | I’ve just performed the following programme (not in this order. This was the programme before the order was chosen) in my community light orchestra concert:
Joyeuse March - Chabrier
La Calinda - Delius
Les Miserables - Schonberg
Masquerade Suite - Waltz - Khachaturian
Mazurka (Swan Lake) - Tchaikovsky
My Fair Lady - Loewe
New York, New York – Kander
The Bat – Strauss
I think that this sort of programme favours an all-around Bb trumpet.
All the best
Lou |
As I am lazy, I would just play the whole program on C…
In the end, we play what we like, and what works for us. My studio of some 50 trumpets has not one Yamaha or Bach in it. Schilke, Selmer, Kanstul, Thein, Alexander, Scherzer, Schagerl, Galileo, Egger…
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so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much Andy.
I wouldn’t call playing a C trumpet for this programme a lazy option. Apart from La Calinda, every single part is for a trumpet in Bb.
You would be doing a lot of unnecessary transposing, but if you’d prefer that for the consistency of your C, obviously that is up to you.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1517
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Not much to add to this but when I have tried the Xenos, admittedly some time ago, I was not particularly fond of them. I thought Yamaha was taking them in the direction of Bach.
I think the large tribes used to divide themselves pretty clearly into Schilke/Yamaha and Bach. However, I think that Yamaha has blurred the lines and in some ways Schilke has too.
People who like the Yamaha YTR 6335 and the like or the classic Schilke designs, are of the old Yamaha/Schilke tribe. However, the tribe that likes Bach trumpets often likes the Xenos and other newer Yamahas and sometimes even the new series Schilkes (though less frequently, it seems to me).
They are all great horns.
I am clearly in the old Schilke/Yamaha tribe, but I certainly respect the other choices -- some wonderful music is made on them.
There may be some Bach horns out there that blur the lines now too, but perhaps the problem is just too many choices and the Xeno II kind of gets lost in the shuffle, particularly with the Chicago and New York models priced to make it look like a poorer cousin.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| cgaiii wrote: | Not much to add to this but when I have tried the Xenos, admittedly some time ago, I was not particularly fond of them. I thought Yamaha was taking them in the direction of Bach.
Thanks very much and maybe.
I think the large tribes used to divide themselves pretty clearly into Schilke/Yamaha and Bach. However, I think that Yamaha has blurred the lines and in some ways Schilke has too.
People who like the Yamaha YTR 6335 and the like or the classic Schilke designs, are of the old Yamaha/Schilke tribe. However, the tribe that likes Bach trumpets often likes the Xenos and other newer Yamahas and sometimes even the new series Schilkes (though less frequently, it seems to me).
Very interesting, thanks very much. How do you feel that the predecessors to the Xeno II, the 6335H, 6335HII and Xeno I fit into this? I used to own a 6335HII, mine was the 6335HGII, and I felt that the Xeno I was very similar, and the big changes were made with the Xeno II. Do you feel that the Xeno I was Bach like, or only the Xeno II? The models I list, like the Xeno II are all described as heavy weight. Is this the difference that you feel makes them more Bach like? I haven't played a 6335.
They are all great horns.
They are.
I am clearly in the old Schilke/Yamaha tribe, but I certainly respect the other choices -- some wonderful music is made on them.
There may be some Bach horns out there that blur the lines now too, but perhaps the problem is just too many choices and the Xeno II kind of gets lost in the shuffle, particularly with the Chicago and New York models priced to make it look like a poorer cousin.
Yes, I think that this is it, especially the latter part. People are probably seeing the Chicago and New York models as considerably better and the pro choice. That the Xeno II is probably an alternative to a Bach 180ML, which was the standard professional trumpet for many years, doesn't seem to be consdered. It seems to me that people still see the Bach 180ML as a pro horn because it has been known that way for years, and the 190ML models as higher Bach models, but may not see the Xeno II compared to Chicago and New York models in the same way.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1517
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Lou,
Addendum here. I was at a friend's place yesterday (we play natural trumpet together) and we were talking about C trumpets (modern). I tried his Xeno C (sorry did not record the model number), but it played really nice. I was expecting it to play tighter, but it was a pretty easy blow. It was more along the lines of the older Yamahas in my very cursory trial. So I may be wrong about some of the Xenos. I certainly have not tried them all. There may be more variety than I thought.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4898
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cgaiii wrote: | Lou,
Addendum here. I was at a friend's place yesterday (we play natural trumpet together) and we were talking about C trumpets (modern). I tried his Xeno C (sorry did not record the model number), but it played really nice. I was expecting it to play tighter, but it was a pretty easy blow. It was more along the lines of the older Yamahas in my very cursory trial. So I may be wrong about some of the Xenos. I certainly have not tried them all. There may be more variety than I thought. |
Thanks very much for sharing cgaiii. I don't suppose your friend said whether his was a Xeno I or Xeno II C. My section colleague has a Xeno I C and from the brief go I had on it, it is a very nice C.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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