MPs for Bb vs C trumpet

[Proteus]

Should I really be using different mouthpieces for Bb and C trumpet? Why? If yes, what mp characteristics are better suited to C trumpet? Why? I can see using a shallower piece for piccolo, but is the difference between a Bb and a C large enough that each needs its own mp?

I've also just read that perhaps the mp throat & backbore should be tweaked (larger) for the C. True? Why?

I have an old Bach 37 Strad (1970s) and a Bach 239 C, currently using a Schilke 12 for both. Any suggestions?

Thx.
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[chrisf3000]

I use the same for both Bb and C trumpet. I have tried every single combination you can think of, plus multiple 24/24 setups. Every single time I go, "Ugh, this feels too big or spread". That's for me personally, of course, since it's what I'm used to from day one of playing both instruments.

What works for you? Only you know by trying them. Can you get your hands on a couple of different combinations to see what feels right? I know many people who swear by open throats and backbores. For me, I would tire out and barely make it to the end of a concert playing something with too big a bore.

[Goby]

C trumpet has a very specific application - symphonic orchestra and chamber music - while Bb is used in a variety of musical styles. Generally speaking, the sound that most players are after with their C trumpet is that of a 20th century American orchestral player, and as such, a Bach 1.5C, 1.25C, or equivalent size generally gets the sound that is desired.


A C trumpet has plenty of intonation quirks, and a larger backbore can give the player some more flexibility with intonation and help achieve the symphonic sound that C trumpet is associated with. In an orchestra, the trumpet part is usually not too technically demanding, so the player can trade a little bit of agility for a larger sound with a bigger throat/backbore on their mouthpiece.


Personally, I think shorter mouthpieces work better for C, and can improve the intonation of top space E to the point of not needing to use alternate fingerings.


Your Schilke 12 should be fine for use on your Bb and C unless you're having serious issues with it. According to popular Schilke lore, the model 12 was a copy of Don Jacoby's mouthpiece. Mr. Jacoby was a well-known session player in NYC, so the 12 should be a good all-around mouthpiece. The scans available online suggest that the Schilke 12 has a similar depth to a Bach 1.5C with a slightly smaller rim diameter and tighter throat entrance. I'd expect the sound to be a little bit brighter with a sharper articulation, but overall similar in timbre.

[Dayton]

[david johnson]

I played a 239 for years and used the same mpc I had for my Bb. It always worked. I've experimented more in later years and it's the same for me. Whatever works best on one transfers to the other...so far

[Shark01]

Try different things. I find that most C literature has more above staff notes than Bb in what I play. So as a result, using a more efficient setup works best for me. I use an equivalent of a Bach C or B cup with a medium 25 backbore for Bb and a D cup with a tighter backbore (but still a 25 size) on C.

[Dale Proctor]

I also play a Bach 239 C trumpet, and use the same mouthpiece (a Curry 3C.) on it and my Bach 43 Bb trumpet. I tried a few Bach mouthpieces with the 24/24 setup and didn’t really find any advantage to using them. The D, Eb, and E in the staff require alternate fingerings no matter which mouthpiece I use.
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[Subtropical and Subpar]

I am no pro and my C trumpet is uncommon so take my thoughts as you will, but Reynolds Contempora C Trumpet, with its bronze bell and two-way tuning trigger, sounds worlds better with a B cup than a C cup. It's a bit... shrill with a C cup, to be honest. Sounds wonderful with my ACB 1B, though.
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1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
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2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[CTrumpeter]

This is a tough question, and definitely not a "one size fits all" solution. Some players use vastly different setups for different horns, while others play on the exact same thing. I have tried many, many combinations over the years and have gone back and forth with this idea. It also depends on the context of what music you are making. Playing in an orchestra vs. wind ensemble vs. big band are very different games.

Personally, in an orchestral setting, I find that a more open setup on the C trumpet is really crucial if I hope to play the way that I want to sound. I can get away with a "stock" setup on the Bb trumpet most of the time, but it doesn't transfer well at all to my C trumpet, as the blow resistance is too much for me, the high register becomes thin and pushed, etc. However, when I use my C trumpet setup on a Bb trumpet, it is a little less efficient on the bigger horn, so I can either learn to live with that or change mouthpieces. I usually opt to just live with it, since the C trumpet is my "work horn" and the Bb is my warmup/fundamentals horn. If I were playing solo repertoire all the time on a Bb trumpet, I probably would find a different setup that helps with that.

All this to say, I would experiment as much as you can afford to and follow the sound, let it be your guide. If your sound becomes dull and loses the "ring", or things that you can normally do well suddenly become impossible, it's probably not the right combination.

Also, to answer your thought on using a shallower piece for piccolo, that isn't always true either. I have known some players who use the exact same mouthpiece that they use on a Bb or C trumpet for their piccolo playing and sound fantastic, while others change the rim, cup, throat, and backbore entirely. There's really no "exact science" to this, and so much of it is personal preference through discovery.

Hope this helps.

[abontrumpet]

[JWG]

Just a general rule of thumb that works for me: Standard-length shanked mouthpieces for Bb trumpets and Short-shanked mouthpieces for C trumpets.

Unfortunately, I cannot explain why short-shanked mouthpieces seem to play more in tune and more nimbly on my C trumpet than on my Bb, and, vice-versa, standard-length shanked mouthpieces play more in tune on my Bb than C.

Perhaps the short-shank allows my C trumpet's tuning slide to sit at a better place for the nodes in the standing wave to land upon and reflect from on a greater number of notes. Not sure, but I can watch my tuner as I play my C and see the notes hit more in tune on the short shank mouthpiece.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[trumpet56]

My Schilke 20D2D works on both my Bb and C Piston and Rotary trumpets. However the higher trumpets require a different mouthpiece not smaller just a different shape and backbore.

[zaferis]

I'm on the side of, yes! Likely you can maximize the relationship between you, the mouthpiece, and the trumpet by having a slightly different mouthpiece for each trumpet. The trumpet is different, you're likely trying to get a different result... balance is helpful.

Yes, I can and do sometimes use the same mouthpiece (Curry 3C) on both my Bb and C. But Ideally not; my C is significantly different in design from my Bb and I"m trying to get a different sound. A whole tone shorter, a differently shaped bell, a larger bore, etc. There are mouthpiece specs that suit that build and use. The two most common variations seem to be a slightly larger throat, and / or a shorter shank.

One of the major factors in playing Curry's mouthpieces is the rim shape consistency within a series... all my Curry 3 variations feel and respond the same on my chops. Each of my trumpets responds better with a different set up.

Conversely, I recently played a church gig with a strong orchestral trumpeter that plays in the Dayton Phil. To better match his tone and volume I used the mouthpiece I normally use on my C on my Bb (a Curry 3C with a more open throat)
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[RandyTX]

For a while, I used a slightly (one drill size) larger throat, everything else the same for C trumpet. More recently, I've been using a 'Reese Piece' (think it's made by Curry, judging by the blank looking exactly like his) but sold by somebody else, can't remember who atm. Wiff Rudd at Baylor was putting a lot of his students on them, and I heard about them from a former teacher and tried one out. Works really nicely in the C.

But, short answer is plenty of people use the same mpc on Bb and C and have great results doing it, so if it's working for you, no need for another safari.
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