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Which cornet and for what playing setting?


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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 623
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
Just a Conn Connstellation 38A, which is a giant tank of a thing. Nickel plated, which seems a heck of a lot thicker than silver plate, those heavy, heavy Conn valves (I'd say 50% heavier than the valves in my Bach Strad trumpet), and that infamous .485 bore. It has a dark, sonorous timbre, although not in the way that a British Brass band cornet is dark. I fear I lack the vocabulary necessary to really explicate this; people say words like "core" and "spin" and my eyes glaze over. Long story short, it's an American-style cornet but not, I think, one meant for trad jazz playing. With different mouthpieces it can sound relatively trumpet-ish or almost flugelhorn dark; depending on the purpose I bounce between a Bach 1C, Monette B11, Yamaha 16E, and Yamaha David King.

To be honest I am desirous of a second cornet even though I don't really have enough venues/uses to justify the one I own There are a lot of King Silvertones on the market lately, some for decent prices, and I figure the tonal differences of a sterling silver belled-cornet might kinda sorta maybe make enough of a reason to own one. Plus it would make a matching set with my King Liberty trumpet. I am on the fence about it.


Sounds great, and I think I know what you mean when you describe how your cornet sounds. Personally I have no idea what the Conn Constellation 38A looks or sounds like.

Is the King Silvertone more of a jazz cornet?

Take care and best wishes

Lou


What I like about the Connstellation is the solidity of its build. Of all my horns it feels the most like it was built to last centuries. If it were a car, it would definitely have that imperious "whomp" when you shut the door like an older Mercedes Benz And the valves are impossibly spotless, too. Maybe the cleanest/newest-looking valves of any of my horns, including my three year old flugel!

With my Monette B11, which is a deep B cup in Bachspeak and maybe a bit wider inner diameter than a Bach 1 rim, the sound is reasonably close to "Gerard Schwarz on that album where he plays all the songs in the back of the Arban book," which is pretty much what I'm going for. An excellent, expressive sound for concert band / community wind band solos. Note: with such a large mouthpiece on a .485 bore horn, I do not have the greatest endurance in the world on it.

My understanding from YT videos and fellow TH posters is the King Silvertone cornet is pretty bright as cornets go, what with a solid sterling bell and all. Mostly I'm curious as to how a sterlin bell speaks in my hands - and the art deco engraving on their horns from the 1930s is just wonderful. Plus I am blown away by how good the King Liberty trumpet is that I picked up last summer. When these things were new... I can't even imagine.
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from the Regents and later on the Imperial I was handed when moving to the front row mid 1960s most of my "cornet life" has heard me playing Getzen Eterna (s) - from 1970 and on. Mostly in the brass band but also in the university wind band. In the latter, often 2 cornet parts and 2-3 trumpet parts. I must confess that I never ever brooded on if this was the right thing to do or not. And as I have told in other posts, the Salvation Army no 1 mouthpiece was replaced by a V B 1 1/4C, mostly because I got the feeling that my lips had "grown too big" for the S1.
And, again, the "Zeitgeist" concerning the brass band sound, it was brighter than today.

I began playing front row on an Imperial but soon enough we found that it didn´t match with the Eternas (LBs)
Our director, a fine judge of the UK bands made sure that our sound was "cornetty" meaning dolce, singing, never harsh attacks, always minding the section sound.
Everyone played Getzen Eternas. apart from some, in the back row who went on playing Imperials.

Starting up the swingband I realized that the Imperial was not the horn to use for lead; for a year or so I played on an Eterna but realized that the trumpet was a must. Partly this had to do with my way of playing cornetty, even on the trumpet....
There is a huge difference between front row cornet and playing lead - took me some time to discover.

Quite interesting is the fact that I played the soprano part in our brass band on the Selmer Eb/D trumpet I bought in order to play the Haydens concert nr 3 on the university band Christmas concert 1974. Obviously the way you play a horn might be decisive. But when the old Imperial Eb cornet was replaced by an Eterna Eb I switched to that horn for many years.
Of course a certain difference in sound.
Today´s soprano is a tiny Schilke, don´t know the details. To my ears a way too small sound.

As time went by other brands have been guests in the front row section; some Yahama Neos, one Soverign - but never a Bach. The Stradivarius I bought in 1994 was a rather shortlived bird in the section:neither did it fit me nor the section. Not warm enough although a great "core". Too trumpetty. Or shall I say, dominating the section, kind of.

The mouthpieces in the front row section are mostly Wicks no letter or 4B. This notwithstanding I seem to blend well with my Schilke 3D3.
Bach 1,5 or 1,25 might fit but I doubt this. However you never know - the other night I had to borrow a Bach 1 1/4C from my section mate in one of the big bands, he had two of them and they were very different - one later model rather deep....

So - which cornet when? Certain cornets, perhaps such as Bachs (??) may present difficulties when it comes to blending with some other brands. Other cornets might become more easily "domesticated", kind of, in a section. I.e. the Yamahas seem versatile - my 6330 II blends very well with the Eternas.
But the way you play the horn, at least from my viewpoint, is an important variable.
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)


Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Andy Cooper wrote:
You mention custom 3C mouthpieces. Do they all have the standard 3C cups or is your cornet cup modified to be more "cornetish"?


...I've never felt the need to have it modified to be more cornet-like.


I play on a slightly larger rim but shallower cup than a Bach C. On cornet I'm using the same cup but with a modified "2nd" cup or entrance to the throat.
This takes some of the sting out of an attack. If you wanted to check this out, the easiest way would be to try a Stork 2C or Stork 2B. (Standard Cup NOT Traditional Cup) The result is a sound that is not really darker but sweeter in articulations with out going to a deeper cup.

New could easily duplicate this or modify an existing mouthpiece.
Here is an example with a Bach 1 1/2C and a Stork.
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=VA051509&mpc2id=VB000300&backcolor=blue


Thanks very much, but I'm not in all honesty thinking of having this done, as the rest of my section are on standard Bach C cups on Bach 184MLs, and I've played the same top on a Bach 184ML, then a Yamaha Xeno/Neo for 10 years, then back to the Bach 184ML, since 2009. If it has worked fine in a section of Besson and Yamaha cornets, and works fine in a section of Bach 184MLs, I don't see much point in changing it.

But for just interests sake, the Stork Vacchiano 2B 24D appears to be more open at the entrance of the throat. I take it that this is what you are talking about.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your further replies. I will reply over the weekend, as I need to get ready for a rehearsal.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have ten mins, so will just reply to a few points that jump out at me for now, leaving replying properly to when I have more time.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:
Aside from the Regents and later on the Imperial I was handed when moving to the front row mid 1960s most of my "cornet life" as heard me playing Getzen Eterna (s) - from 1970 and on. Mostly in the brass band but also in the university wind band. In the latter, often 2 cornet parts and 2-3 trumpet parts. I must confess that I never ever brooded on if this was the right thing to do or not. And as I have told in other posts, the Salvation Army no 1 mouthpiece was replaced by a V B 1 1/4C, mostly because I got the feeling that my lips had "grown too big" for the S1.
And, again, the "Zeitgeist" concerning the brass band sound, it was brighter than today.

I began playing front row on an Imperial but soon enough we found that it didn´t match with the Eternas (LBs)

Just a brief reply for now to a few points. I've only briefly (one rehearsal lol) tried playing an Imperial on the front row of a section of Besson and Yamaha cornets. I found that it was too small in sound with a too small dynamic range, that I could barely hear myself in the section. It however seemed to project fine for solos. It is almost as if the smaller sound was absorbed in a section of large bore cornets, but able to project over the lower instruments.

Our director, a fine judge of the UK bands made sure that our sound was "cornetty" meaning dolce, singing, never harsh attacks, always minding the section sound.
Everyone played Getzen Eternas. apart from some, in the back row who went on playing Imperials.

Starting up the swingband I realized that the Imperial was not the horn to use for lead; for a year or so I played on an Eterna but realized that the trumpet was a must. Partly this had to do with my way of playing cornetty, even on the trumpet....
There is a huge difference between front row cornet and playing lead - took me some time to discover.

Quite interesting is the fact that I played the soprano part in our brass band on the Selmer Eb/D trumpet I bought in order to play the Haydens concert nr 3 on the university band Christmas concert 1974. Obviously the way you play a horn might be decisive. But when the old Imperial Eb cornet was replaced by an Eterna Eb I switched to that horn for many years.
Of course a certain difference in sound.
Today´s soprano is a tiny Schilke, don´t know the details. To my ears a way too small sound.

As time went by other brands have been guests in the front row section; some Yahama Neos, one Soverign - but never a Bach. The Stradivarius I bought in 1994 was a rather shortlived bird in the section:neither did it fit me nor the section. Not warm enough although a great "core". Too trumpetty. Or shall I say, dominating the section, kind of.

Brilliant! That's exactly it.

The mouthpieces in the front row section are mostly Wicks no letter or 4B. This notwithstanding I seem to blend well with my Schilke 3D3.
Bach 1,5 or 1,25 might fit but I doubt this. However you never know - the other night I had to borrow a Bach 1 1/4C from my section mate in one of the big bands, he had two of them and they were very different - one later model rather deep....

So - which cornet when? Certain cornets, perhaps such as Bachs (??) may present difficulties when it comes to blending with some other brands.

Yes, I agree.

Other cornets might become more easily "domesticated", kind of, in a section. I.e. the Yamahas seem versatile - my 6330 II blends very well with the Eternas.

They are very versatile, but my Neo does not blend very well in a section of Bach 184MLs. Too big, broad and warm. The Xeno is a little better, but not much.

But the way you play the horn, at least from my viewpoint, is an important variable.

Yes, indeed.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Normally I play it on cornet one week, then their cornets lol appear the following week.

Hehe, nice!

Louise Finch wrote:
I never take my flugel to orchestras, unless I know that I have a flugel part to play. I'd definitely use cornet for quieter, more lyrical solos.


I suppose you could argue that my flugel is somewhat cornettish, given that it has both a cornet wrap and a cornet receiver.

Maybe, compared to my Bach 183.

Then again even at low volumes it projects like nobody’s business…I suppose a cornet would blend in more?

Does it need to blend lol?

Louise Finch wrote:
To me, having the cornet in my hand, gives me the sound and approach I'm looking for. The audience may not notice the change in sound, but I feel the change. I'm very much a feel it and play it from the heart kind of player, and if playing it on cornet puts me in the zone, and encourages me to put my heart and soul into it, hopefully that comes across to the audience. Maybe the change from trumpet to cornet won't come across, but the emotion will.

Can relate. My Olds Super cornet doesn’t give me that feel though (maybe it’s partly due to it’s name lol). My trumpet does though, as does my flugel.

I'm v glad that you feel this way about your trumpet and flugel.

Louise Finch wrote:
Why not (join a brassband), time willing?

Time is not willing .

That's a shame.

Louise Finch wrote:
I bought my section mate a set of O rings for his 1st and 3rd trumpet slides.

I have a section mate like that too, except they move their valves. It’s funny because we’re playing a song where everyone has to move their valves/keys loudly for effect…except the trumpet section . They can’t really help themselves, but I agree it can be nerve wrecking at times.

I wonder why they do it, absentmindedness, nervous energy. Maybe I have my own share of bad habits. One conductor used to take his glasses off multiple times everytime he addressed the band after stopping us, give them a cursory wipe on his shirt without looking at them, and then put them on again, I reckon 50 times + each rehearsal. I have no idea why, as he wasn't doing any meaningful cleaning of his glasses. I daren't take mine off, as I got caught out last time. I thought that 200 bars rest was a good opportunity to try to clean an annoying smudge that had been there all evening, so there I am counting my bars and trying to get rid of that smudge, when the conductor suddenly decides to jump to where the trumpets come in, but I can't see a thing on the page, barely even the title, so there is no trumpet entry from me. I think that people thought that I was joking when I said that I couldn't see a thing on the page, and that I was just daydreaming, but sadly I wasn't lol.

Louise Finch wrote:
Take care and best wishes

Likewise. Feel free to keep sharing cornet stories, I much enjoy reading them.

Thank you very much, and please feel free to share your stories also.

My very best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When playing cornet, I switch between the two more modern ones that I own, an early 1990s large bore Bach 184 with a gold brass bell, and a 1962 Conn 9A Victor with a copper bell and leadpipe.

When I played 2nd part in a local brass band, I used both cornets, but generally preferred the Conn with a Wick 4 mouthpiece. The tone with that setup is really dark and rich, and the cornet can be played powerfully without getting brassy. If the music for a particular concert was really demanding, for endurance I would use a Curry 3BBC mouthpiece instead.

I generally play the Bach in concert band type situations, and mostly use a Bach 3 (no letter) mouthpiece. That setup has a really nice traditional cornet sound and is really easy to get around on. I just played 1st cornet part on it a couple nights ago at a rehearsal for an Easter piece with 2 cornet parts and 3 trumpet parts, and received a nice compliment from the 1st trumpet player on my sound.

I feel lucky to have two great cornets, and I play them whenever possible. These days, though, I seem to be playing trumpet more than cornet. Funny thing, my two go-to trumpets are a Bach Strad and a Conn Victor too.
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
When playing cornet, I switch between the two more modern ones that I own, an early 1990s large bore Bach 184 with a gold brass bell, and a 1962 Conn 9A Victor with a copper bell and leadpipe.

When I played 2nd part in a local brass band, I used both cornets, but generally preferred the Conn with a Wick 4 mouthpiece. The tone with that setup is really dark and rich, and the cornet can be played powerfully without getting brassy. If the music for a particular concert was really demanding, for endurance I would use a Curry 3BBC mouthpiece instead.

I generally play the Bach in concert band type situations, and mostly use a Bach 3 (no letter) mouthpiece. That setup has a really nice traditional cornet sound and is really easy to get around on. I just played 1st cornet part on it a couple nights ago at a rehearsal for an Easter piece with 2 cornet parts and 3 trumpet parts, and received a nice compliment from the 1st trumpet player on my sound.

I feel lucky to have two great cornets, and I play them whenever possible. These days, though, I seem to be playing trumpet more than cornet. Funny thing, my two go-to trumpets are a Bach Strad and a Conn Victor too.

Thanks very much Dale. All very interesting.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9000
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Getzen Capri which I got "just in case". "Just in case" never came, so I now have a like-new Getzen I bought directly from Brett Getzen, for sale. (It's not listed anyplace.)

FYI, I believe the "intermediate" classification for Capris, both cornet and trumpet, is underestimating them.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
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Louise Finch
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I have a Getzen Capri which I got "just in case". "Just in case" never came, so I now have a like-new Getzen I bought directly from Brett Getzen, for sale. (It's not listed anyplace.)

FYI, I believe the "intermediate" classification for Capris, both cornet and trumpet, is underestimating them.


Obviously up to you and I don't know your circumstances, but if this is your only cornet, and you don't need to sell it to fund something else, is it worth keeping it so you have a cornet, or was this your just in case that never came?

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9000
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have another Cornet, Lou. The Capri is probably 100 years newer and, as such, is very reliable, as well as having modern ergonomics.

The old Cornet's advantages are that it is slightly lighter and is medium bore. I have physical problems that I won't bore anyone with, but the two advantages of the older Cornet are what I need, now.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I have another Cornet, Lou.

Hi kehaulani

Thanks very much. Sorry, I was looking at your signature and could only see the Capri, hence my concern lol regarding you possibly selling your only cornet.


The Capri is probably 100 years newer and, as such, is very reliable, as well as having modern ergonomics.

I've never played one, but they are supposed to be very good cornets.

The old Cornet's advantages are that it is slightly lighter and is medium bore. I have physical problems that I won't bore anyone with, but the two advantages of the older Cornet are what I need, now.

I fully understand, and if the older cornet is a better fit for you now, I fully understand why you want to keep that and sell the Capri. Just for interest's sake, what please is it?

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the old Cornet? A Conn "The Wonder".

The reason it's not in my signature block is that it's at Charlie Melk's right now to check it out. It's valves "clack" loudly and drives me crazy, so I want to make sure any repairs to fix/minimize that don't cost more than the horn, itself.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
What is the old Cornet? A Conn "The Wonder".

The reason it's not in my signature block is that it's at Charlie Melk's right now to check it out. It's valves "clack" loudly and drives me crazy, so I want to make sure any repairs to fix/minimize that don't cost more than the horn, itself.


Thanks very much, I'll look up what these look like.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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cbtj51
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Joined: 24 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little late in offering my 2 cents, but a very busy weekend with Saturday morning Chamber Orchestra rehearsal, Sunday afternoon Chamber Orchestra Concert (piccolo and C trumpets) followed by a quick drive across town to play Prelude and Offertory at Evening Church services (C trumpet).

I could barely wait to get to my Monday morning practice session at home with my Bach ML184. I acquired this about 2 years ago as my first cornet ever and I can't praise it enough. It is so much fun to play!

With zero Brass Bands within a few hundred miles and little call for cornet in my regular venues, I have resorted to creating situations for playing this wonderful instrument! As principle in my church Brass Ensemble, I get to pick and choose appropriate instrument substitutions and find many places for the 184. I also employ it joyfully whenever I can for solo and vocal accompaniment. In most situations I use a Reeves 41B very similar to my regular trumpet Reeves 41B692 piece. There is enough notable difference in sound profile so as not to confuse the 2 different instruments. For solos and some vocal accompaniment, I use a Denis Wick 5 for a much darker presentation. My wife usually chooses a flugelhorn substitution while I use cornet in situations where we get to play together in brass ensemble and the combined sound is very pleasing according to others. Thankfully, shading nuances are plentiful if you listen for them!

I am very happy to have the 184 in my collection.

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
_________________
'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbtj51 wrote:
A little late in offering my 2 cents,

No worries.

but a very busy weekend with Saturday morning Chamber Orchestra rehearsal, Sunday afternoon Chamber Orchestra Concert (piccolo and C trumpets) followed by a quick drive across town to play Prelude and Offertory at Evening Church services (C trumpet).

All sounds great.

I could barely wait to get to my Monday morning practice session at home with my Bach ML184. I acquired this about 2 years ago as my first cornet ever and I can't praise it enough. It is so much fun to play!

I'm really pleased to hear how much you like it.

With zero Brass Bands within a few hundred miles and little call for cornet in my regular venues, I have resorted to creating situations for playing this wonderful instrument! As principle in my church Brass Ensemble, I get to pick and choose appropriate instrument substitutions and find many places for the 184. I also employ it joyfully whenever I can for solo and vocal accompaniment. In most situations I use a Reeves 41B very similar to my regular trumpet Reeves 41B692 piece. There is enough notable difference in sound profile so as not to confuse the 2 different instruments. For solos and some vocal accompaniment, I use a Denis Wick 5 for a much darker presentation. My wife usually chooses a flugelhorn substitution while I use cornet in situations where we get to play together in brass ensemble and the combined sound is very pleasing according to others. Thankfully, shading nuances are plentiful if you listen for them!

I am very happy to have the 184 in my collection.

All sounds really great!

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

I completely agree.

Mike

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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iiipopes
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Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 548

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou,

Of course, you have played my globe stamp Sov 921 in brass band rehearsal. For American style mixed wind concert band, I find an American "straight" cornet works better, as it blends with both brass and woodwinds, especially if there are trumpets in section. (American concert bands aren't as picky as BBB's about the specific instrumentation, especially since they are usually school, university, or community organizations where instrument availability and price are the driving factors, with a more than healthy dose of personal preference.) My American cornet is a Cyborg (King or Bach, depending on the year of manufacture, same horn) CR300, modified to look like a Bach 181 with the thumb saddle and 3rd valve stop, but with the King valve buttons I am more used to, in large bore (.462). A very versatile horn, indeed. When I am playing in a small ensemble or personal practice, I use either a Curry 3DC or 3BC; when I have to lead trumpets I have a Parduba 6 1/2, an old one restored by Jim New.

The principal in our community band plays a Bach 184 with a 1 1/2 C mouthpiece (probably stock, he's not into bore or backbore experimentation). His tone is a little darker, but with the C cup mouthpiece he carries the section well. I say this knowing you play 3C mouthpieces, which are, of course, probably the most versatile mouthpiece Bach ever made, save for those who desire the really, really deep cornet V-cups.

Because of the wide throat of the bell, my 921, even with a Curry 3TC, although it sounds better with a Curry 3BBC, is just too dark to carry or blend a section of American cornets and trumpets.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet


Last edited by iiipopes on Fri Mar 08, 2024 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
Lou,

Of course, you have played my globe stamp Sov 921 in brass band rehearsal. For American style mixed wind concert band, I find an American "straight" cornet works better, as it blends with both brass and woodwinds, especially if there are trumpets in section. (American concert bands aren't as picky as BBB's about the specific instrumentation, especially since they are usually school, university, or community organizations where instrument availability and price are the driving factors, with a more than healthy dose of personal preference.) My American cornet is a Cyborg (King or Bach, depending on the year of manufacture, same horn) CR300, modified to look like a Bach 181 with the thumb saddle and 3rd valve stop, but with the King valve buttons I am more used to, in large bore (.462). A very versatile horn, indeed. When I am playing in a small ensemble or personal practice, I use either a Curry 3DC or 3BC; when I have to lead trumpets I have a Parduba 6 1/2, an old one restored by Jim New.

The principal in our community band plays a Bach 184 with a 1 1/2 C mouthpiece (probably stock, he's not into bore or backbore experimentation). His tone is a little darker, but with the C cup mouthpiece he carries the section well. I say this knowing you play 3C mouthpieces, which are, of course, probably the most versatile mouthpiece Bach ever made, save those who desire the really, really deep cornet V-cups.

Because of the wide throat of the bell, my 921, even with a Curry 3TC, although it sounds better with a Curry 3BBC, is just too dark to carry or blend a section of American cornets and trumpets.


Hi Scott

A great response, thanks very much. Your 921 Sovereign is indeed a lovely cornet.

Take care and look after yourself

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3620

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting discussion.
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763
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