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What you ‘hate’ about Bach 37s


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Rhondo
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 7:15 am    Post subject: What you ‘hate’ about Bach 37s Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

For those who have played any version of a Bach 37 of any era, and maybe have expressed strong dislike of them here, how did you come to this conclusion? What things annoyed you most about the ones you played?
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my LR180/37 in 1991 I also ordered a regular 180/37 on approval. The LR180 was marvelous; the standard horn was much stuffier and had intonation issues. I sent that one back and kept the LR180.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: What you ‘hate’ about Bach 37s Reply with quote

Rhondo wrote:
Hello Everyone,

For those who have played any version of a Bach 37 of any era, and maybe have expressed strong dislike of them here, how did you come to this conclusion? What things annoyed you most about the ones you played?


You can not just say Bach 37 as there are too many different years and configurations. The 37 is the bell. A 2023 19037 player and feels different than an anniversary 19037 because there were changes. Both of those are completly different from a 1980s - 2020s 18037. A 1960s early elkhart plays different than a mt vernon with a 37 bell even if they both have the same leadpipe. Heck a 1980s-2020 lr18037 player different than a 18037 from the same year because the different leadpipe and brace configuration.

Then in early ny,mt vernon, and early elkhart days you had different leadpipes on the 37 from a 6, 7, 25 etc.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to disparage the 37 thinking it sounded too generic and unrefined. At the time I favored the 72 which I thought sounded both darker and with a nice edge. Since then I've played some 37's (not all) that I think sound wonderful.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to the 37's I've tried with the standard leadpipe for that bell (that is, the combination most music stores would order and keep in stock -- 37/25 perhaps?), I always feel like I run into a 'brick wall' at around "A" above the staff.
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Last edited by Halflip on Tue May 14, 2024 9:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many feel tight. Personally I don't like tight instruments and my collection reflect this.

I have come across the odd 37 which didn't feel nasal, tight and oh-so intonationally challenged. They are the exception. Therefore, I don't put any of my limited time into Bachs, even though I do get along with 72 bells.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach ML 37/25 - it is either the venturi size or the leadpipe. This combination is actually painful for me to play for more that a few minutes. Perhaps with a large enough mouthpiece throat and backbore it would be better.

Put a 43 or 7 leadpipe on the horn and it's OK. Other Bach configurations are fine - for instance, I like the Vindobona model and the New York LT80S77 7/7.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only speak for the regular weight 37 with a 25 leadpipe, but multiple specimens. They all felt really tight.

The tightest one was a special one, a 37 with sterling silver bell. LOUD (would be great for un-amplified outdoors gigs) but very very tight.

Played a great 37 when I visited Martin Böhmes workshop awhile back. Nice and (not overly) open, very good slotting and intonation. It had one of Martins custom leadpipes and that completely changed the whole game.
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Rhondo
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: What you ‘hate’ about Bach 37s Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Rhondo wrote:
Hello Everyone,

For those who have played any version of a Bach 37 of any era, and maybe have expressed strong dislike of them here, how did you come to this conclusion? What things annoyed you most about the ones you played?


You can not just say Bach 37 as there are too many different years and configurations. The 37 is the bell. A 2023 19037 player and feels different than an anniversary 19037 because there were changes. Both of those are completly different from a 1980s - 2020s 18037. A 1960s early elkhart plays different than a mt vernon with a 37 bell even if they both have the same leadpipe. Heck a 1980s-2020 lr18037 player different than a 18037 from the same year because the different leadpipe and brace configuration.

Then in early ny,mt vernon, and early elkhart days you had different leadpipes on the 37 from a 6, 7, 25 etc.


I thought I made that clear in the wording! 🙂
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a college student in the early 70s, I had the opportunity to play several standard Bach 37s that friends and colleagues owned. I probably (unfairly) compared them to my Benge 5x that, as has been said, was Eldon Benge's answer to the popularity of the Bach 37. I found nothing in common between those Bachs and my Benge. I decided that I just didn't like them, to heavy, tight, and slow to respond and avoided them like the plague. After playing a Bach 7/7 (LT180S77) in early 2016, I had my first really good Bach experience, liking it so much that I bought one. It is in many ways like my Benge, but on steroids!

My new wife brought her '92 Bach 37 (with 1st slide trigger) into our relationship a little more than a year ago and I started playing it regularly during practice sessions and now often during public performance. It is by no means the light and agile sister (the heaviest of our modest collection) to my much lighter weight NY7 (my favourite and most played horn), but has a very strong, solid appeal in certain situations. I don't think that anything other than my attitude has changed towards (at least this example of) a Bach 37. I wouldn't likely take it to a Latin or Big Band gig, but Chamber Orchestra, Brass Ensemble, or solo gig, I could've and have sometimes chosen the 37 gladly. This example is a very nice horn! My wife, on the other hand, has become a Yamaha fan and taken possession of my Jim Becker tweaked Yamaha RGS!

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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hate them, but they aren't the best horn for the work I do. I played a Sterling Silver Bell 37 in high school and college. I think they're great for playing classical music, but prefer a different feel and tone quality for the playing I do nowadays which is mostly commercial, jazz, salsa. They are very good trumpets just not the right tool for the job.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the early 50s and 60s 37 with a 7 leadpipe. . I am not very fond of the latter 18037 with the 25 lewdpipes as I feel they are more restrictive and I prefer a more open horn. The new 19037 made after 2023 woth the thinner bell are much better and more akin to the earlier horns.
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mograph
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not yet at the point where I can blame my dear old 37 for any difficulties in my tone production. In fact, it's sounding rather nice, and doing what I need, whether it's with a deep or shallow mouthpiece, playing legit or jazz.

Now, ask me again after I go to ITG one of these years!
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jengstrom
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I haven’t played any of the 190 series horns, but I’ve played 180 series 37’s. I don’t like them. They are just too stuffy.

I have only played 2 37’s I liked. One was a horn my college teacher hand picked at the factory, around 1980 or 81. And he had the factory remove a couple braces (I forget which ones) before he brought it home. It was a really nice horn.

The other was an early 70’s horn in mediocre condition.that an acquaintance picked up on eBay a dozen years ago. He is an instrument repairman, and he installed a 7 leadpipe that he had made while in repair school. I tried to buy that one. He refused to sell. Damn trombone player.

John
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve played dozens of them from many eras. The good ones are great. I’m ok with resistance if it’s even throughout the register. My biggest complaint is with the ones that get squirrelly around first ledger line A.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘Hate’ is too strong a term, but the thing I dislike about Bach is not the instruments themselves, but rather what they represent. To me, ‘Bach Stradivarius’ represents a traditional, stoic and stale outlook on music. It’s good at what it does, but it feels confined to a specific outcome…little musical freedom. Mostly in my head of course, but that’s one reason why I’d rather play something else.

Funnily enough, when I tried a buddy’s 37 a while back, that was pretty much how it responded. Nice sound, easy enough to play, maybe even better than my own trumpet. But very narrow in its focus and sound palette.

Again, I’m fully aware that most of it is mental, but the names ‘Bach’ and ‘Stradivarius’ just link it to classical music for me, which I cannot seem to emtirely shake off (similar to Yamaha and motors).
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:
Again, I’m fully aware that most of it is mental, but the names ‘Bach’ and ‘Stradivarius’ just link it to classical music for me, which I cannot seem to emtirely shake off (similar to Yamaha and motors).


I find that interesting, since Yamaha started out as a manufacturer of organs in 1887. Their logo is three tuning forks.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
I find that interesting, since Yamaha started out as a manufacturer of organs in 1887. Their logo is three tuning forks.

Back when I was younger we used to go on vacation to a large lake where lots of people had small boats with outboard Yamaha engines. It was where I first read the name Yamaha, and somehow the association stuck.

Sorry for derailing the thread. Back to answering the OP's question: given the sheer number of Bach's out there I'm sure there are some I'd like. I'm not against anyone playing one either. It's mostly that the few I've tried didn't really 'click'.

As an industry standard, Bach is often recommended when people ask advice on 'what to buy'. Personally, I feel people would find a better fit trying instruments for themselves, rather than ordering something online based on reputation alone (if that then turns out to be a Bach, then great, but at least it's an informed choice rather than an automatic one). Some people seem to prefer a 'safe choice' over a 'good choice', rather being 'not wrong' than 'being right', which is kinda what I feel Bach (and to a large extent Yamaha as well) represents: a safe answer that more than likely will be good enough. Just not very exciting.
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CaptPat
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like my 37, though there are a couple of things I'd like to change. The first would be a lacquer finish instead of silver plate, or better yet a brushed lacquer finish, and the second install a spit valve of some sort on the third valve slide. I don't care for the dump slide.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who has played Bach trumpets almost continuously for many decades, the only 37 I probably owned was my first Bach, a Mount Vernon, which was only marked ML, so I am assuming it was a 37. And in the interest of transparency, I've also owned and played other brands as well during those years. Even today, my weekly usage includes a Mount Vernon Bach, a Schilke, and a Martin Committee.

If I may veer slightly off topic, it's not what I hate about the Bach 37 per se, (truth be told I would buy the new 37x in a heartbeat if it wouldn't result in the hiring of a divorce lawyer). What I hate about the Bach 37 is all the wining and complaining about them.

I am not aware of any "one size fits all" model trumpet. And true, the Bach Corporation has had its ups and downs as far as quality control is concerned. But this was a company wide issue, not model specific and it seems to now be in their rear view mirror. And while, the 37's I've played over the years wouldn't be my first choice, (the new 37x being the exception, and only for certain applications), I don't see anything inherently wrong with the 37 and really don't understand the constant trashing of this particular model.
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