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Yamaha Xeno vs Yamaha Bobby Shew


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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 8:45 am    Post subject: Yamaha Xeno vs Yamaha Bobby Shew Reply with quote

Recently, several people in the trumpet section of our local community band have purchased Yamaha Bobby Shew trumpets. They swear that it is the best horn that Yamaha makes. However, when I looked up the specs and then compared them to the specs on the Yamaha Xeno trumpet, I'm not convinced, the Xeno seems like it would be a better horn.

Mind you, I'm not going out and buying a new trumpet, as I like my Getzen. But I'm just curious why all of a sudden several people in the section have bought these horns. Is it peer pressure? They want to play what the cool kids are playing? Or are they really that good a horn?

And of the two, is there a better horn? Or does each have its own place/use that they're really designed for?
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TJTS
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 8310zII is indeed that good of a horn and IMHO it is the best non 9k series Yamaha. I like it much better than a Xeno and much better than the 8335LAII. What specs do you see that make a horn better than another? That doesn't make sense to me. Specs are just that - specs - they rarely tell you how a horn sounds, how it blows, the resistance, feeling, etc.

Not sure what you mean about cool kids, the 6310/8310 is actually quite an old design that Yamaha has consistently improved over time.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t think specs define how good a horn is, so I don’t quite see how the Xeno specs make it a better horn. I have played both side by side (though never owned them) but clearly preferred the Shew every time I compared them — please note I’m not saying either one is better, I just preferred the Shew every time.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
I don’t think specs define how good a horn is, so I don’t quite see how the Xeno specs make it a better horn. I have played both side by side (though never owned them) but clearly preferred the Shew every time I compared them — please note I’m not saying either one is better, I just preferred the Shew every time.

These are my thoughts and experiences, too.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you play them, how do the specs sound? Personally, I've never been able to get a sound out of specs.

Motive of your section mates? Ask them. If you want to second guess them have fun thinking you know what's in someone else's heart and mind. Point is, how should WE know?

If you want to know which is a better horn, play them and let YOUR ears decide.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello
the best way to make your own opinion is to play both models.
You'll then see which of them is the best for YOU
best
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJTS wrote:
Specs are just that - specs - they rarely tell you how a horn sounds, how it blows, the resistance, feeling, etc.


Agreed. That's why I asked those who have played them.
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:

Motive of your section mates? Ask them. If you want to second guess them have fun thinking you know what's in someone else's heart and mind. Point is, how should WE know?


I did. They said they like the horn, but couldn't really quantify anything about why they liked it. One guy actually said since several others had the same horn, it must be good, so he bought one.
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL wrote:

the best way to make your own opinion is to play both models.
You'll then see which of them is the best for YOU
best


As I said, I'm not going out to buy a new horn, which is why I asked. Playing them both is exactly what I'd do if I was going to buy me a new horn though.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There can be a big difference between 'what I like to play', and 'what produces the better sound'.

When doing a play test, it can be very difficult (impossible?) to judge what the sound would be for an audience listener. And the 'audience sound' doesn't include the sensory feelings (vibrations, weight, balance, blow, etc.) that a player experiences - and those can affect the enjoyment of playing the instrument.

If you really need a specific 'audience sound' beyond 'hey that trumpet sounds good', then you ought to do some critical testing of audience sound.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhatheway wrote:
JVL wrote:

the best way to make your own opinion is to play both models.
You'll then see which of them is the best for YOU
best


As I said, I'm not going out to buy a new horn, which is why I asked. Playing them both is exactly what I'd do if I was going to buy me a new horn though.

So, if you don't want to play test (which is the only way to know and answer your question) because you don't want to buy a new horn, why do you want to know ?
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL wrote:

So, if you don't want to play test (which is the only way to know and answer your question) because you don't want to buy a new horn, why do you want to know ?


Because I'm curious. I want to learn more to see if there is something about these horns that might make me decide to try one (or both) out for myself.

And also to see if anyone can really quantify a difference, as opposed to just saying "play both, decide what sounds good to you and decide for yourself."

I thought that was the purpose of this forum, to share information, ask questions, and be able to learn from each other and those with much more experience.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played a number of Shew horns and the only one I really liked was a first generation 6310Z. I too have encountered a number of players who play the newer horns but they really don't play exceptionally for me. All this makes me a bit sad because Bobby is one of my idols and one of the greatest players I've ever see in person.

The last Yamaha Bb that blew my socks off was a Xeno Artist model YTR-9335NYS III that I got to try at the last NAMM show.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to re- and paraphrase the OPs original post, I think the actual question is something like:

Of those who have played both horns in question, what do you think about them? Which one do you prefer and why?

I preferred the Shew because I liked the light weight, the flexibility, and the fast response. Also found it easier to play (my) high. Often I like a more centered sound and the Xeno for me just didn’t have that.
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played both models and also prefer the Shew, either 6310 or 8310 to any of the Xenos I have played. I just prefer lighter and more nimble trumpet.
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mograph
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you looking for that your current horn doesn't give you?
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mograph wrote:
What are you looking for that your current horn doesn't give you?


I've got a post about that.

Basically, a fuller, rounder, warmer tone. I love my Severinsen but it is very bright. If you have some thoughts on that, please look for my post (entitled "Next trumpet?" in the Horns forum) and chime in!
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JVL
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhatheway wrote:
JVL wrote:

So, if you don't want to play test (which is the only way to know and answer your question) because you don't want to buy a new horn, why do you want to know ?


Because I'm curious. I want to learn more to see if there is something about these horns that might make me decide to try one (or both) out for myself.

And also to see if anyone can really quantify a difference, as opposed to just saying "play both, decide what sounds good to you and decide for yourself."

I thought that was the purpose of this forum, to share information, ask questions, and be able to learn from each other and those with much more experience.


Richard, i didn't mean to be sarcastic nor offendant. I was insisting on play test because already with the same model, not 2 exemplars play equal.
Until 2001 i played a Bach strad. Then i changed for a 6310Z, chosen between 5 models, Bobby was at my side.
In 2019, i could try 3 exemplars of the new 8310Z gen 2. Two of them had a nice warm round, which i liked better, but because one didn't slot well from High C, and the other was a bit tight, i bought the 3rd one that had a brighter sound but was very comfy to play.
Conclusion, i could try several exemplars of 2 models, i chose the best ones, and i can tell the huge difference for me between the 6310 & 8310 : larger, richer, more powerful sound ; with a larger throat & bb mpc, i can have a nice warm round sound.
Best
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mograph
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhatheway wrote:
mograph wrote:
What are you looking for that your current horn doesn't give you?


I've got a post about that.

Basically, a fuller, rounder, warmer tone. I love my Severinsen but it is very bright. If you have some thoughts on that, please look for my post (entitled "Next trumpet?" in the Horns forum) and chime in!


Have you considered a deeper mouthpiece, like a Curry TC or (even deeper) TF?
... or even a deeper version of your current mouthpiece? I find a Bach 5A quite dark.

https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=197_213_242_711
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mograph wrote:
rhatheway wrote:
mograph wrote:
What are you looking for that your current horn doesn't give you?


I've got a post about that.

Basically, a fuller, rounder, warmer tone. I love my Severinsen but it is very bright. If you have some thoughts on that, please look for my post (entitled "Next trumpet?" in the Horns forum) and chime in!


Have you considered a deeper mouthpiece, like a Curry TC or (even deeper) TF?
... or even a deeper version of your current mouthpiece? I find a Bach 5A quite dark.

https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=197_213_242_711


I've tried deep mps, but not very deep mps. I guess it couldn't hurt to try one of those first. Are either of those Curry mps considered to be very deep?
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